- This topic has 588 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
U-boats – I can’t think of any others but we all might stumble upon more…..
Marcel – I’ve checked all the serial numbers on all my stock pieces from Sangershausen and they are all ‘normal…….so you made a good find! A different style is not noted in any of the serienscheine catalogues as far as I am aware.
Hallo Nate,
Found an U-Boot for you: Bremen, Skagerrak-Gesellschaft (1 Mark)
(my private collection)
Random question for all you smart people: Are there any Notgeld that depict images of U-boats? A friend asked me this question randomly and after thinking about it for a while and searching the internet, I can’t seem to find any that do! It seems like such an important German invention like the U-boat would make its way to be featured on a note in some way. Do you know of any notes w/ u-boats that you could share with me? Thanks, all!
I have just published an article for non-paper, card or metal notgeld issues (material pieces) ………that DO NOT appear in Grabowski Band 9.
I have started it off but I know there will be quite a few others. Please email me with the town name and a scan if you can suggest any please. It will take some time to get this anywhere near ‘complete’ I think…..
Thanks in advance
Most faded pieces, where the ink has started to almost run out, will have serial numbers which help define when that was in the print run. What do you think happened here then??
They introduced a new colour later on in the print run……or maybe there are 2 different colour, each with their own print run??
SANGERHAUSEN
The 50 Pf note above is the RARE one (with the small serial number). Please, also look for the 25 Pf note. Thanks!!!!
I will have to keep my eyes out as it isn’t somethig I have really looked specifically at. I will also see if I have any pieces here still that throw any light on the situation. All collectors can post their 50pf piece if the serial number isn’t like those 2 scans from Marcel…..
SANGERHAUSEN
Every two or three months I am on a money fair. Always at the same dealer table with three or four Serienscheine collectors. I am looking at 15 big maps filled with Serienscheine. Which one first? Not once I have all the 15 maps seen in one visit. What a lovely day, filling the empty spots in my catalog.
Sometimes you make a discovery: a not cataloged Serienschein. Usually it is variant in the serial numbers: a bigger star or the not confirmed serial number. But last month I had a bigger catch.
Sangerhausen issued one serie two different paper types: Büttenpapier (hand made paper): sämisch (chamois colored) and white paper. The serial numbers are easy to see: 4,5 mm in height, 3 or 4 digits and every new edition is numbered with vorgedruckter 1, 2, 3, 4 on sämisch Büttenpapier and 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 on weiss Büttenpapier.
“What is this?”, I thought. The note in my hand has a strange serial number: No 02824 three mm in height. I took a closer look, the paper was very smooth and sämisch and the colours are more realistic than the normal notes. No watermark. (The note is not in a perfect condition. A bit of browning on the left side, a little damage bottom right corner and on the backside there is glue and the paper has a “paper error” with a little damage on the edge)
At home browsing on the internet. Nothing about my new note. Is it a Muster (sample) or a new edition, but never issued?
My call to my fellow collectors: please look in your collection. Is my note an unica or are there more? Write Tony with a picture if you find such a “new” note of Sangerhausen. Thanks to all !!!!
Hi Marcel – I think it is the other way. Lindman had moved on to creating a catalogue for all Baustein pieces……way past the date of 1923/4…….and thus took all the baustein pieces and placed them in that specific catalogue. I think he became aware of a few pieces after he had written his ‘Jungdo’ and serienscheine catalogues, so placed the baustein piece into his baustein catalogue only. I don’t think he updated and printed his Jungdo original – wouldn’t have thought he had sold too many of those! He wouldn’t have updated his serienscheine catalogue as he had split those off in his mind………but I think that was not 100% the right thing to do. I think it was another catalogue he could write and sell.
In the baustein catalogue there are some ‘horrible later dated pieces – they have nothing to do with the notgeld issues that are in his serienscheine catalogue and the pieces that notgeld collectors still love today.
Hallo Nate and Tony,
The Minden note is listed in my PUZ catalog. There is no remark that the note single-sided. But, not every single-sided note is mentioned, see e.g. Halle Merseburg Hausgenossenschaft is single-sided.
Yes Tony, strange that the Minden note is not listed in the “Jungdo” book by Lindman. In the “Bausteine und Spendenscheine” (2011) by even so Lindman there is an entrance and he refers to the Serienscheine catalog. May be he found out that the Minden note is after all NOT a Serienschein?
Hello everyone. Someone (and I can’t remember who unfortunately) asked a question about a Bischofswerder 1914 piece they had. I have had a response back from Alfred Diessner now – ‘Bischofswerder – it is number 029.1.d – point type A.’
Hopefully this will find the right person.
Hi Nate!
Oh – does Lindman do that in his listings? I hadn’t realised
– I have a list of pieces that I am trying to ascertain whether they are double sided or uniface. I will have to check what he says for those…….thanks for the hint.Nice! I also found a different image of the face side of the note, from an old Teutoburger auction (sold for 550 EUR in 2013!). I’m guessing the note has something printed on the back side or else Lindman would have indicated that the note was single-sided?
Hi Nate!
Strange one – I hadn’t noticed that Lindman has it listed (Lm.864A) but Grabowski doesn’t. I’ve just looked in Lindman’s small red ‘Jungdo’ booklet and Minden is missing.
I found the picture though and I will have to include it in my ‘ELUSIVE GEMS’ at some point. It is probably listed in the Baustein and Spendenscheine catalogue but I don’t have a copy of that. It seems very hard to get hold of…
Has anyone seen an image of this note? This image is from the Lindman catalog, but I don’t believe this note is listed in Grabowski/Mehl? Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Marcel! – Very interesting. If you find more like this, maybe another article!
Thanks for posting so everyone can share this info.
Lignite or brown coal (Braunkohl)
This moment a little place in Germany Lützerath, is evacuated by the police. Lützerath is occupied by protesters because the town will be demolished for the winning of lignite. In the past there are more then 300 places vanished fort he winning of brown coal. I found two Serienschein places who are “resettled”. Nachterstedt and Königsaue are now Neu Nachterstedt and Neu Königsaue.
I have just received my copy of Diessner’s BILLIONENSCHEINE catalogue and its wonderful! A great layout and coloured pictures throughout. If you want a copy, please do get in touch with Curt Bansbach – Mail : info@rbcurrency.com or info@rbnumisbooks.com
Please let him know that ‘Tony the notgeldman from England’ advised you. Thanks.
For all Notgeld collectors and their loved ones: a very merry Christmas and a beautiful new collecting New Year!
With the inspiring Christmas thought: “Allzeit bereit für den Anderen”—“Always ready for the other”
private photo archive
I finally found the different sized ‘No’ (before the serial number) on some Schopfheim pieces. You would never know to look unless you have the Lindman ‘Spezialkatalog’ for seienscheine. There is only .5 mm difference (in both pairs shown) but clear to see the difference:
Interesting Marcel – I have never seen them, but the date range is out of my collecting sphere really. There were several notgeld issues of 1947 which I sometimes see on eBay etc but they are always almost the same ones you always see Altesruid or similar etc. Playing card pieces are liked by the collectors!!
Fa. A. Schulze, Leipzig (Sachsen)
This Notgeld was issued in the period 1945 – 1949 on playing cards. I quote the catalog by Michael Schöne: “Das Papiergeld im besetzten Deutschland 1945 – 1949”: The from mini playing cards notes were made in 5 series with on the backside with the value and “&” (sic!), front with a three lined firm stamp. Size 25 x 35 cm. NB: 1, 2, 5, 10 and 25 Pf. And the symbol for Pfennig: ₰ and not &.
See also the articles by Tony on playing cards and Notgeld
Several of the ‘listings’ have ben updated with further pieces suggested by GNCC members – thanks everyone.
I’ve just published the article on ‘Unissued artist drafts – ‘ghost towns’ – info and pictures supplied by Marcel.
Thanks guys!!
FYI – I have just updated my ‘Wilhelm Busch’ article (under serienscheine/people) with a link to translations for the 6 comical Gatersleben pieces and the 8 Wiedensahl pieces. Link supplied by GNCC member David – many thanks David!!
Thanks Marcel for your latest ‘Iron Cross’ suggestions – I will add them in over the next few days hopefully.
I have placed a sub-list in the ‘descriptive terms’ article that I am now looking for picture examples of (or catalogue numbers) if any one can help me please?
I’ve just published my latest notgeld article for you all – ‘The Iron Cross’. I hope you find it interesting and can recommend other pieces.
I have also added a couple more ‘descriptive terms (for money and banknotes) & a note with a ‘pig’ from Langelohe…….which I must have seen in the same place as GNCC member Leng, as he advised me 5 minutes later!!
Thanks all
Marcel – I was never able to acquire any of these over-stamped pieces from Przyschetz. You are a lucky ‘so-and-so’…..as we say between friends here!
I might show an example of each colour over-print in my book if you have scans? (I have some I think
).I will publish another article early next month that some of you will definitely be able to suggest others to add…… Happy collecting!!
Hi John, Tony and David,
Welcome David on the site. A fairy tail on Christmas notes. Beautiful story. Thanks John.
That will be a tour de force Tony. Serienscheine have hunderds of names for their notes. I have found: Ortelsburg (Volksabstimmungs Schein) and Sonderburg (Abstimmungsschein). A reference to the Abstimmung: Flensburg (Li.354) (Erinnerungsschein)
Just bought from the internet a very scarce note from Przyschetz with the stamp in red. The two notes are full with symbolic referring to the Abstimmung. Why the notes has a stamp with two months extension is for me a riddle. These notes have also stamps in green, silver and gold.
Hi all – I have been diligently working on my article ‘secriptive terms used for ‘money’ or ‘banknote’. I have added quite a few so please have a look as you may stumble across some pieces with other words or terms that I haven’t captched to date!
Does anyone have an example of ‘Abstimmungscheine’ (voting notes…all the ‘plebiscite’ issues) or ‘Volksabstimmungscheine (People’s voting note) so I can show a scan under those terms please??
Most of the plebiscite pieces have ‘notgeld’ or ‘gutschein’ on them, so I am specifically looking for one with just the word ‘Abstimmungscheine’ / ‘Volksabstimmungscheine’……..thanks in advance
Thank you! I was thinking it was all one story, but you probably have it more correct that it is maybe more than one, perhaps an amalgamation. I remember thinking such a thing on a Chinese note: turns out they weren’t practicing marital arts at all – it was a scene from an operatic love story! haha.
You’ve given me some new directions to look, and I thank you again – though here I sit realizing I had loaned (but isn’t it always ‘given’) my “Complete Brother’s Grimm” book quite a number of years ago. Well, I better fire up the ol’ internet and get looking some more.
Hi David, and welcome to the GNCC and the forum.
The Langeln series tells the story of a Christmas play for children (Ein Weihnachtsspiel), entitled “The Little Elf’s Journey to the Earth” (Des Elfchens Reise auf die Erde), apparently written by an otherwise unknown (local?) author Erna Marg. Brieger (next to the words Ein Weihnachtsspiel are the words “v[on]. Erna Marg. Brieger”).
The catalogues (Grabowski / Mehl and Lindmann give the order of the notes as 25 Pf 1. Sterntaler (Rain of stars as money – from the fairy tale of the Brothers Grimm, Die Sterntaler); 25 Pf. 2. Drei Frauen (Three women); 50 Pf. 1. Kind (Child); 50 Pf. 2. Frau (Woman); 75 Pf. 1. Feuer (Fire); 75 Pf. 2. Weihnachtsbaum (Christmas Tree).
If the catalogues have the order of the notes correct (which is not a given), one could hazard a guess as to the narrative which is observed by a male and a female elf at the top right and left of each note’s obverse side. A little girl elf lives in starry Elfland (25 Pf.); one Christmas she asks the Queen of the Elves to go to Earth to find out what Christmas is all about for humans (25 Pf.); she sees people staying warm in their houses and finds herself freezing (50 Pf.) a kind lady is all alone at Christmas, her house empty of children (50 Pf.); she invites the freezing elf-child in to be warmed at her fire (75 Pf.); the grateful little elf grants the woman her wish and she has two children, whom the little elf visits every Christmas (75 Pf.). This is all conjecture but pulls together various strands of German fairy tales, such as elves etc granting wishes to kind people, the pain of childlessness, being lost and exposed to the elements, and so on. It’s probably as good a reconstruction as any.
Hope this is in some way helpful!
Hi David!
Hopefully one of our notgeld gurus here will be able to answer your query but I can’t – your German is 100% better than mine!! I agree with you though – they are a lovely looking set.
All – please look at the article ‘Descriptive terms for ‘money’ /banknote’‘ article (under OTHER on yellow menu line). I’m looking for a piece that actually states I have been busy updating the article to include ‘Anweisung‘, ‘Kriegsnotgeld‘ & ‘Wechselgeld‘, so do please all have a look.
(Thanks John)!!
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hello everyone! I’m brand new to the site, just joining yesterday. I’m still poking around finding out how it’s all laid out, etc.</p>
I do have a question about a series from Langeln that has been evading me for quite some time though. I did look through a lot of previous posts, but I did not see it referenced yet. This is a Christmas Themed series that has blue and gold inks and is quite lovely, but the theme and the wording (forgive my now ancient high-school German please) is “des elfechens reise auf die erde ein weihnachtspiel” which translates to something like the “Elves rise from the earth on Christmas eve / game”. I would love to learn more about this, but I cannot find anything online about this. Do any of you know if this is a story or fable? I’ve come across some German Christmas stories, but nothing as depicted in these Langeln scenes.
Nate – no probs. It reminds me – I might write an article about them as I think they tell the story of money. I’ll have a look later.Of course, after searching for half an hour and then posting here, I find the answer minutes after posting
the note is from Elmshorn (G/M-333.1)!Does anyone recognize where this note is from? I don’t have a photo of the other side. Thanks for any help!
Thanks for the picture I requested, John. The ‘image’ shows clearly when held up to the light and you have caught that better than my effort!
Something else interesting – here is a specimen note that just arrived. A wonderful and memorable reverse design, which I have seen used elsewhere:
By the way, the highest serial number that I have seen on a specimen notgeld or musterscheine is still ‘00052’. Does anyone else have anything other than ‘00000’. (On any specimen notgeld)!!
Could someone please provide me with a picture of the Stuttgart Dragoner note being held up against the light…..so we can see the full ‘image’? (I don’t currently have a note here) – thanks in advance. I will then add it to the article I am creating.
Hi Everyone – so good to exchange all this info between us. I have some work to do. Stuttgart – fantastic John!!
Marcel – Neuhaldensleben – I bought them as I did a deal with the lady seller. I will use them as a ‘freebie’ for joining my GNCC when they place their first order…..when and if I run out of the Gronau piece I currently send. That way they won’t ‘flood’ the market. Good to read about Oldenburg. I’ll put it in my shop at the catalogue price and if anyone is interested they can make me an offer (25 euros)! Seems fair.
The probedruck pieces with serial 00001 – I used to think that maybe 50 specimen pieces could have been made for dignatories and a few lucky collectors etc. But….I recently acquired a piece of notgeld that was a musterscheine with the serial of 00052. Therefore, I am now thinking that they may have issued up to 99 or 100 specimen pieces. Issues of pattern pieces or probedruck (like the ones you show) should be much lower I would think. Maybe just the single or 2 pieces?? One may have been kept by the printing house and 1 given to the commissioning person to check they were happy before it went into proper printing production…….??
Wow, that is amazing information about the Kaiserhof note! With the crown and the moustache you really can see Kaiser Wilhelm II through the back – obviously the Hotel / Cafe is doing justice to its name!
This made me think about the Stuttgart King’s Own Dragoons Regiment note (G/M 1288.1, Lm. 1257), which I recalled has a similar picture of a chap with the sun at his back, possibly by the same artist? This one’s carrying a scythe rather than a hammer. So I had a look. And what a discovery!
Again, on the reverse we have an empty rondel surmounted by a crown. And looking through the backlit note we see that the crown fits exactly on the head of the figure. No moustache, though, and the bearded gentlemen looks different, so it’s not Kaiser Wilhelm II.
It is however another Wilhelm II, the exiled King of Württemberg, the last of the German ruling princes to abdicate in 1918 (on 30th November). This makes complete sense as the note is from the King’s Own Regiment of Dragoons (Königsdragoner).
A note on the crowns : the Kaiserhof piece has not the Hohernzollern crown of Kaiser Wilhelm II in his role as King of Prussia, but the Imperial Crown befitting his role as emperor (Kaiserhof, remember). And the Stuttgart piece also has the exactly correct crown, the 1806 crown of King Wilhelm II of Württemberg’s ancestor Friedrich I, which I actually saw back in February this year in the Landesmuseum in Stuttgart. Coincidences abound.
NEUHALDENSLEBEN and the INFLATION of Serienscheine (after 100 years)
Just made the buy of my life, I thought. I won the bid on the 50 Pf Neuhaldensleben, Sport-Club Victoria v. 1910 for a quarter of the catalog value of E200,–. A happy man with a beautiful note. You see more very expensive notes on the internet, but (almost) never bought for a bargain. Immediately looking for the other note of Neuhaldensleben, the 1 Mk. To my utter surprise I see that a few months ago 60 (sixty)!!!! notes of the 50 Pf Victoria were sold for the price of E10,– to E20,– each in a month’s time (in single lots and 40 in one lot)!!!!!! The seller made the note “Habe hiervon keine Ahnung” (“Have no idea of this”).
So, I think I bought the 50 Pf note from one this lots. The reseller made a nice profit and made me a happy man, but bittersweet.
And (see photo) what will this affect the Serienscheine-market. I am granting everyone a very expensive note for a bargain, but you have to need the knowledge of the market. If you see one do not pay more than E50,– (and I think this is even too much).
Sometimes ago there was a question “are there Serienscheine with the serial number 00001?”
Yes, they are existing. See the two photo’s of Freienwalde 50 and 75 Pf. They are stamped as “Druckprobe” . The two where sold for E130,- and E90,-. A high amount, but rare notes (There are no mentions in the catalogs. Not surprising, there are only one of them or are they “Musterscheine”? Then I think there are more examples.
Hallo Nate and Tony,
Nice article about Münster-Kaiserhof and the moustache. A very beautiful practicle joke to avoid the ban of depicting the Kaiser.
The price of the Oldenburger note is in the PUZ 3e edition E50,–. Personally I think the price is to high, I am thinking more E25,–. And, a few months ago I noticed that there were two notes sold WITHOUT the serial number: #1 (Schif) and #6 (Herd). There is no entrance in any catalog: “without serial numbers”. Sold for about E30,– a piece (in a not perfect state).
Yes, its just wonderful. (Muenster Kaiserhof)
Do you have the catalogue value for the Oldenburg ‘Aunfzig’ note please? I have it here and want to add it to my shop, now that I have done with it – thanks in advance.
Very nice, Tony! Super fun and cool detail in that new article – thank you so much for sharing.
Hi everyone! Please make sure you don’t miss my latest article about the ‘Kaiserhof hotel and cafe’ notes from Muenster. Absolutely fantastic info.!!
Hi everyone – this is what makes our hobby so great. Unusual pieces popping up now and again with no real explanations as to what they really are or why they have these ‘extra’ markings.
Marcel – I’ve never seen the Kranichfeld overprinted pieces before and don’t know anything about them. Always good though to see something different. Nate – I have seen these pieces before but they look much later than the early 1920’s to me…..? They must be in the specific Lindman Bausteine catalogue….which I am currently still trying to get hold of a copy. Many issues that are in there are completely different to our ‘serienscheine baustein’ pieces, so I’m not 100% for removing the few from the serienscheine catagory – just my opinion. Super though for all Bausteine collectors.
Notgeld ‘boundaries’ are fluid, we have to remember that. For example, this set issued in Saalburg, arrived yesterday…….which proves a bit of a point. Dated 1921, a colourful set of 4 pieces……..but verkehrsausgaben and not serienscheine.
They are listed in Tieste.
KRANICHFELD part 2
I made some inquiries.
The seller of these two notes asked a very old collector of Thuringer-Notgeld and he thinks they are Verkehrsausgaben, private and probably from a church. Look closely at the stamp on the front. It is a kind of church symbol (a window).
So, two Serienscheine were used by an other party to make these into Verkehrsausgaben. My presume said it were Verkehrsausgaben when I saw the 1/2 M and not the 50 P(fennig). You see, (Notgeld)history is not linear.
There are still questions: who was this private party, are there more notes and was the whole serie used.
KRANICHFELD, see the four pictures below.
Two unknown “Ãœberdrucke” on Serienscheine from the place Kranichfeld.
10 Pfennig (Oberschloss) and 25 Pfennig with stamp “Bürgermeisteramt”.
The 10 and 25 Pfennig are overstamped on the front and on the backside the new value of 1/2 M. On both notes a stamp of a signature on the backside.
It is all very strange. I can not find anything on these notes in the catalogs. Why an overprint when there is a note in the same serie of 50 Pf. Why on a note with and without the stamp on the front?
I think it is official issue, because of the signature and the stamp across the values.
It is possible that the 50 Pf was sold out and that is why they made a “new issue”, but why a “1/2 Mark” (more the value on Verkehrsausgaben) and not “50 Pfennig”.
I was overbid on Ebay, so I can not “see them with my fingers”.
Who has an or the answer about these notes.
Hi Tony and Nate,
Nice update of the Stralsund playing cards. It is now for me too more clear what the catalogs meant with the descriptions.
For your question Tony:Â the Oldenburg-Handelskammer notes there is an entrance in my PUZ catalog. It is a “printing error”. I have only one in my books, note # 5 “Graf A.G”, what the PUZ mentioned. The error originate when the printing plate is worn out. The printer made a wrong correction (normal instead of mirrored). A thought:Â it is on the front of the note and they are all the same, why is it only on the #5 note and not on the other notes or are there six fronts?
Bausteine Frankfurt Kommistische Partei have no date and are not mentioned as Serienscheine. I think they are issued in the late 1920’s and if so, in 1933 Hilter became in power and he was not a friend of the communists (understatement). The building was probably never built (or finished).
Interesting note, Tony. Don’t think I’ve seen that one before. Does the entire set have the same “AUNFZIG”? Or just a one-off?
Also, want to bump re: the post I made below about the 4 pieces of Bausteine and whether or not anyone knew any information about whether or not the building was ever built? Thank you!
For the playing card pieces : I have updated the ‘Stralsund’ article with a few more pictures which hopefully clarifies everything.
On another topic : This ‘AUNFZIG’ piece arrived today. I have always been keeping my eyes out for it but now can’t see it catalogued anywhere??
Hi John & Nate!
So its more interesting to notice the playing card side than the back of the cards – I never realised that.
We should now try and get the different suits mentioned, pictured and labelled as either ‘German’ or ‘French’ cards. Here are the only fronts I have in my files:
John / Nate & everyone – I have updated the ‘Stralsund’ article (under category ‘serienscheine’. Hopefully, we can clarify which is which if I separate the different suits out from any pictures we have between us all and label each one…….so it is clear for anyone going forward……..hope you are still enjoying your holiday/anniversary
Equipped with this new knowledge I revisited the entry for Stralsund in my book (see attached screenshot) to find out whether or not I had any images of the French playing card versions. They are all German! Then I spent some time searching around online and still could not identify any images of the Stralsund notes printed on French cards. It seems as though they are much more rare than the versions printed on German playing cards.
Incredible information, as always. Thank you, John! And I hope you have been greatly enjoying your anniversary festivities!
Dear Nate, thanks for your kind words – I don’t write for any publications as I’m not sure that my poor offerings are quite fit for a wider audience; I just write up my researches for my own collection and try to help out when Tony and others have any questions, drawing on my own muddled past as a Germanist. I’m very happy that my findings and ideas are sometimes of use to fellow members of the GNCC.
Apologies for the delay in replying to your post, and also to your query about the playing cards on which the Stralsund Serienscheine are printed. I’ve been in Germany for over a week now, celebrating our 25th Wedding Anniversary by gadding about over the Rhineland and Franconia, and have now arrived at a farmhouse in Upper Bavaria for the next couple of weeks, with a reliable Internet connection and a bit of time on my hands.
I’m sure that I have at least one note from the series back at home but for the life of me can’t recall its exact details, so I’m flying blind a bit here, but this info might help : –
Basically, there are different decks of cards with different suits and different court cards, and sometimes different numbers of cards in a pack – a Skat set doesn’t include any 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s or 6s for example). The Anglo-American 52-card deck is the one I’m assuming that we’re both most familiar with.
The Französische Blatt (French deck) is used in Northern and Western Germany, Southern and Western Switzerland, and parts of Eastern Austria. It has the same suits and colours as the Anglo-American deck, although the heart shows more of a cleft, the spade is a fraction more rounded on the edges and the four edges of the diamond curve inward slightly. The court cards show B for Bube (“boyâ€, what we call the Jack or Knave) or occasionally V (for the French valet); D for Dame (“ladyâ€, what we call the Queen); and K for König (“kingâ€) or occasionally R (for the French roi).
The Deutsches Blatt (German deck) is used in Bavaria, Swabia, Thuringia, Saxony and neighbouring areas; in the North-Eastern cantons of Switzerland and huge swathes of Austria. Confusingly, there are several versions of it : the Hungarian or Double German or Central European; the Altenburger; the Bavarian; the Augsburg; the Old Bavarian; the …. I know, my head hurts too.
In the German deck(s), the four suits are acorns (in the place of clubs), leaves (in the place of spades), hearts and bells (in the place of diamonds). As to colours, hearts are always red; leaves can be dark green or almost black or parti-coloured green-yellow; acorns can be red-black or red-yellow-green; and bells are often red-yellow-green or even more multi-coloured.
The court cards for the German deck(s) can be B / D/ K as above, but in one popular version are characters from Schiller’s drama Wilhelm Tell (the name is written on the card and the beginner would need to have a table of characters to work out how they function!)
To cut a long story short, if you have clubs, spades and diamonds, it’s French. If you have acorns, bells or leaves, it’s German. If you have hearts, the hearts from the French deck often have a deeper central cleft and the hearts from the German deck are shaded, i.e. have a light red side and a dark red side. If you have V or R, it’s French. If you have B, D or K, it could be either, so look to the suits.
The picture you posted from the catalogue is from the German deck as it shows the suit of leaves.
I’ll have a closer look at my own collection when I get home and see if I can run down some clear examples. Hope this helps in the meantime! Best wishes from deepest Bavaria 😊
Hey all: I have a colleague who is writing a book about architecture + Weimar history + notgeld right now, and he reached out to me with a question that I thought someone here might be able to help answer. Here is what he asked:
“I wonder if you have ever come across this note? I’ve never seen one in any of the archives, in Germany or elsewhere, but I randomly came across it on an auction website the other day. The building doesn’t seem to ever have been built, but that’s perhaps less mysterious, given the circumstances.”
Did John post a reply here in between your last two messages, Tony? I can’t see any post from him, only back-to-back posts from you. I would love to know what John said as this has been driving me crazy!
Edit – I think you might have been responding to his previous message re: the note from Hamburg? If so, please ignore my ramblings :D
Super!!
There is always something to learn…..and always someone here to ask!! – thanks John Hi Nate! I don’t know……?? All the reverse pieces I have ever seen are shown in the catalogues. I think they were old Altenburg Skat cards possibly. Keep me posted please if you find something out.
Hoping to find some information about a couple of the notes from Stralsund.
1. Can anyone share a photo/scan/link of 1279.1? I haven’t been able to find any online.
2. There are spielkarten notes referenced here as both “German playing cards” (1279.2a-f) and “French playing cards” (1279.2g-h) – How can you tell difference between the two? Especially since the pattern described on the back sides of each is exactly the same (“small checked/large checked”). It seems like all the examples I’ve found online are the German playing cards.
Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Amazing information as always, John – thank you! Btw, have you written any articles in any of the numismatic/notaphilic publications? Every time I read one of your posts I find myself thinking that I would love to read more of your writing if there is any out there!
Hi Tony, with regard to the letters I.O.G.T. : the I.O.G.T. (Independent Order of Good Templars) was founded in Utica in New York State as a friendly society promoting a teetotal lifestyle and universal fraternity, advocating racial and sex equality. Â The order spread to England and Scandinavia and a branch was founded in Hamburg in 1873. The German Gutempler-Orden was founded in Flensburg in 1889. Â The organisation exists to this day, although the initials I.O.G.T changed to mean International Order of Good Templars; in 2006 they became IOGT International; and in 2020 the name changed again, to MOVENDI International.
There are currently 11 local groups in Germany which continue the work of promoting abstinence from alcohol and laws constraining its advertisement, use and availability; of developing individual character; of promoting socially responsible behaviours and relationships; and standing for universal peace. Â They have been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize nine times in their history.
The graphic on the reverse shows a mother and two children aghast at their drunken husband and father sprawled on the pavement, Â a warning against the consequences of the demon drink. It is quite striking in its white, black and brown……..no way typical of serienscheine.Deutscher Guttemplerorden – ‘German Good Templar Order’?? Don’t know what the ‘I.O.G.T.’ is – our guru will surely know more and will hopefully be able to clarify to us all……..
Ok cool, sounds good Tony. Here is another recent pick-up I have to share – a scarce note from Hamburg!
‘2034’is within the normal range for the 1000m coal coins, as they issued 3500 of them, so thanks for the info Nate. I am really now only looking for numbers that look ‘wrong’ or greater than 3500. Thanks for thinking of me though! Happy collecting and keep in touch!
Nice score, Marcel!
Tony – I have a new coal piece to add to your database. 1000 Mk, 70mm, 6mm thick, serial number 2034. Don’t have a scale right now because the cheap batteries that were inside the scale I bought went bad, leaked battery acid, and ruined the scale!
Marcel!
WOW WOW WOW!!!!!!!!
Superb!! I’ll add it to my files for ELUSIVE GEMS. I guess I will have to update the book again at some time, if I get about a dozen or so more new additions in, like this. (Leipzig zentralarchiv and Salzderhelden……aswell as several others were included in the recent update).
Fantastic that ‘we’ are still discovering ‘unknown’ pieces…………..especially serienscheine!!
HERMSDORF:
Just arrived the overprint of 200.000 Mk on a 25 Pfennig note from Hermsdorf. Not in very nice state, but a very rare note. It is not mentioned in any catalog I know. But see the other picture (they were sold at an auction in 2014) and notice the different colours (red and purple) of the signatures.
A “new” discovery in Notgeld world and in two different shapes.
HERMSDORF.
Three times overprints on Serienscheine:
200.000 Mk on 25 Pfennig
500.000 Mk on 50 Pfennig
2.000.000 Mk on 75 Pfennig (on the “Zwei Retter” note).
Personal photo archiv
Thanks John – I eventually worked it out myself and was very pleased to have found the ‘answer’!! I have just published the latest article ‘Kraiburg‘ that shows the pieces in order. Yes, you wouldn’t know the correct order of an unnumbered set, unless you had a numbered set ordered correctly beforehand. Very strange! It reminds me of the pieces from Schalkau though…..
Also, all please note : the ‘kleinschecks‘ article has been massively updated with many thanks going to ‘Marcel’ for supplying me with a complete list. There is still work to be done to find out the differences in the catalogues for stated ‘kleinschecks’, ‘schecks’ and where these types have had no categorisation placed on them in their catalogue descriptions…..
Its all interesting stuff and keeping me busy. What a great hobby!!
Hi Tony, according to the catalogue note, the numbering of the pictures is based on the serial number of each piece. Notes with serial numbers beginning with 0 have Picture 1, notes with serial numbers beginning with 1 have Picture 2, notes with serial numbers beginning with 2 have Picture 3, notes with serial numbers beginning with 3 have Picture 4, and so on until those with serial numbers beginning with 9 have picture 10. Of course, you’d need to have the variants with the serial number to make sense of those that don’t! Hope this makes sense! Its certainly unusual.
Hi! Can someone please explain the catalogue entry for the order of notes from Kraiburg please? (Lm.718). I can’t see any picture (bild) number on my pieces…….?? and it seems to suggest 2 is 1 and 3 is 2 etc?? wacko:
Latest article on the subject of the ‘white lady’ just published. I’ve now started another article for all the kleinscheck serienscheine pieces. If anyone has a list that will help me, please let me know by email.Â
I’m looking st the sets of 5 pieces like Brake and Naugard etc. Usually pieces have the serial number but sometimes thee is a signature and date stamp. I’ll publish the article when I think it is near done.Happy collecting. Cycling is going well so most of my attention is on that at the moment.
I have just published my latest article about Hannover and the Oberschlesier-Hilfwerk serienscheine issues – hope you find it interesting…….
My latest article about the Wilhelm-Ruestringen notes has just been published – My thanks to GNCC member ‘Leng’!!
I am now trying to get a picture of the ‘true’ Stortebecker to add to the article…….
Hi Nate!
Sorry for the late reply – just back from a family holiday in Mexico. No, I’ve never seen a porcelain coin made into a badge like this before. Interesting…..
Recently purchased this because I had never seen one of these porcelain pieces with a pin back like this. Has anyone seen any others before, or have any information about them? Thank you!
I just received a fingerprint banknote from Muenster. The article has been updated with a lot of info about the note I found on the internet……..happy reading! (On the yellow menu bar, categories/Inflation 1923/fingerprint signatures)
All great info. chaps – super!! – I will update my Frose article over the weekend that I am still working on…..
Tonight, I’m also creating an article with all the different SHAPES of notgeld I have seen. The great majority of course are covered off with RECTANGULAR. I also have SQUARE, CIRCULAR, OVAL, TRIANGULAR…..and a few others with those shapes and fancy border. Send me scans of others….or wait until article is published…..thanks in advance.
Thanks John for the nice words and the beautiful translation of the folder!
The Frose Notgeld puzzle competition was a one of the highlights in the Notgeld-hype. The buyers of the Notgeld were not only attracted by the nice design and colours, but now also with big prizes.
The notes were issued by the municipality, but if you look more closely to the folder, it was more a private trade by Willy Dockhorn. If you want to win one of the prizes you have buy the Notgeld serie. If you want to know the solution of the puzzle you have to write a letter with a payment in stamps of 80 Pfennig (for a note of 75 Pfennig). And above all, this note was issued by Willy Dockhorn himself!
In my previous article I wrote that the Puzzle Notgeld serie was probably made by Willy Dockhorn. I meant: the initiative of the second serie was more Willy Dockhorn himself than the municipality of Frose.
Dockhorn was also the artist of the Serienscheine of Königsaue, Ballenstedt (Kreis) and Gatersleben.
On the internet there is a beautiful site: geldscheine-online.com This site has many articles on Notgeld.
Kind thanks to Marcel for providing scans of Willy Dockhorn’s advertising sheets for the Frose Puzzle Competition series.
Here’s a translation :
“Important for the Purchaser of this Series!
The distinctive national activity of collecting emergency money with its well-established referencing of German culture, German industry and Germanness has, after following different paths, found pride of place in society and needs therefore the most effective support. In order to assist in this endeavour, there are a whole lot of surprising prizes for the solutions to the puzzle which people send in, prizes to gladden the heart of any Notgeld collector. The following works, albums etc will be distributed in numerous copies :
Dr. A. Keller, German Emergency Money, Volumes I and III [sic],
G. Prange, German Wartime Emergency Money from 1914 to the present,
H. Lütckens, The Poetry of Notgeld,
H. Treseburg, Proverb Notes of German emergency money,
K. Skowronek, How to Collect Notgeld;
furthermore :
Notgeld albums for 1, 000, 500, 200 notes etc.,
Free annual and quarterly subscriptions to the five current Notgeld periodicals,
Wonderful collections of series of individual geographical areas and states; etc. etc.
Applicants should give the serial number of the “One Mark†note of the enclosed series along with their name and exact address and send the solution as soon as possible to the mayor’s office of Frose (Anhalt) or to Willy Dockhorn, Frose (Anhalt). The deadline for the competition along with the names of prize-winners will be announced in all hobby periodicals. Prize-winners themselves will in addition be notified in writing in order to claim their prizes.
As a final piece to add to the enclosed puzzle series, and after the award of prizes has been completed, a 75-Pfennig note presenting the solution to the puzzle competition in artistic fashion will be sent out to all collectors. We ask for this interesting note to be pre-ordered when submitting the solution by including a stamped addressed envelope and payment of 80 pfennigs in stamps.
We ask customers to recommend the Frose Puzzle Competition Series to collector acquaintances in order that the large number of prizes already made available can be increased further. Orders of the same can be directed to the undersigned.
With kind regards to fellow collectors,
Willy Dockhorn, Frose (Anhalt)
Post Office Account : Berlin 95698”
Frose the Riddle Notgeld serie (see also the article written by Tony)
There was a great campagn to promote the Riddle Notgeld serie:
1. there was an advertising sheet (141 x 79 mm) in seven colours with and without a stamp On this sheet you see the prices you can win (see photo’s below)
2. A paper wrapper with the advertising sheet and of course the Notgeld serie (see photo below)
3. An advertising sheet with the announcement of the serie ( braun)
4. An information sheet with the names of the winners of the first price draw
5. An advertising sheet for the solution of the riddle AND with an error reporting!
All those sheets are published by Willy Dockhorn from Frose. He was a teacher in Frose. It is an assumption that he was also the artist (he made the first serie that was issued)
The printing house was Louis Koch, Halberstadt. Notice the two different printing runs: the back sites are brownish and bluish. (Curious: there are more places with this distinguish, all printed by Louis Koch)(The photo’s are from my own collection)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.