general notgeld chit-chat

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  • #39626
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    #39625
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    #39624
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    #39532
    notgeldman
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    Something I had never noticed before about the anti-Semitic ‘pot seller’ & ‘David notes:

    David being shaved, is the potseller – see the chamber pots behind the chair……

    #39321
    notgeldman
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    Whilst it was in my mind, I just published an article for notgeld issued by Breweries (Brauerei). There are several out there so please send me an email with a scan or two……and I will add them in! I’ve started it off with the lovely looking Berlin notes issued by the Engelhardt Brewery :mail:

     

    #39310
    notgeldman
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    I saw it too, but didn’t really want it. Nice to know there are still ‘new’ things to find…….like the Doberan, Bad signatures. I suppose the city archives could know who these people were and how many different people signed the notgeld…..

    Anyway, this arrived for me today, so I’m happy :yahoo:

    #39191
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    This note was sold a few days ago on Ebay for a pretty high amount. The note is catalogued under “Berlin”, but the stamp is from Bremen.  Not very strange when you seen the note, it is an exhibition in collaboration between Bremen and Berlin. The strange thing is that there is no mention in any catalog.

    #39190
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    The two notes are from Doberan. The note below is a common note with a stamp withe name “Paul ….(?)”. Sometime ago I stumbled on the upper one with an additional stamp “H. Luthman”, the chief of the aforementioned? And no remark in the catalogs.

     

    #39124
    notgeldman
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    Someone….can’t remember who though – was after 1 of the 1m pieces from the scarce set of 3 from Lage. Hopefully it is one of the 2 pieces just added to my shop?? :bye:

    #39028
    notgeldman
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    Very nice too! Yes – for sure its an uncatalogued specimen piece. :good:

    #39027
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Very nice catch Tony!

    Have an other note that is not in the catalogs; Lemgo 10 Pf without serial number. “Muster” ?

    (Photo archive)

    #39023
    notgeldman
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    Just in – this uncatalogued serienscheine specimen variant. ‘Ungultig’ is known but not ‘Ungiltig’ and of course missing its usual serial umber!!

     

    #39022
    notgeldman
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    Thanks Marcel – I saw the note but wasn’t my collecting area because of the date of issue – but hadn’t noticed the ‘piggie’! I’ll add it to the article – thanks :good:

    #39010
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    MITTELBERG, 2 Reichsmark Fa. P. Meusberger/METZGEREI (back)

    This is Notgeld from the period 1945 to 1949. These years were very harsh times for Germany. The war was lost and there was shortages of almost everything there was even famine. The currency were still in Reichsmark for Germany. The note is from Paul Meusburger, a butcher. But Mittelberg is a territory of Austria (in the area of Walsertal). The only way out or  in Mittelberg is through Germany. It is a German customs area. So, is it an exclave or an enclave or neither?

    For Tony: a new note for the “piggy” article.

    #39009
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    MITTELBERG, 2 Reichsmark Fa. P. Meusberger/METZGEREI (front)

     

     

     

    #38949
    notgeldman
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    It is indeed, a wonderful looking note! From discussions I have had with some collectors, there appears to be the breaking up of the old 8 different categories of notgeld. Many did not sit properly so they were placed with the serienscheine. As you mention, there is now a ‘specific’ catalogue that covers just the Bausteine pieces.

    I think the borders of these categories overlap and are quite fluid. I like the easy way of keeping the 8 main categories. There will be thousands of collectors with the older and more popular Grabowski/Mehl and Lindman serienscheine catalogues, so they will see these types as serienscheine……….if they are catalogued of course! Thanks for posting.

    #38945
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    The world of Notgeld is wonderful. I stumbled on a strange note on Ebay on the selling site of my Notgeld friend and spotted a never seen note of Leipzig: Zentralarchiv für Sammelwesen”, 25 Pfg. BAUSTEIN“. That is not a big problem, you do not have all the Notgeld notes in your head. Just bought the Kai Lindman’s “Bausteine und Spendenscheine des Deutschen Reiches 1871 – 1945”, nothing. PUZ third edition, nope. Internet: many archives, but also nein. I wrote my friend. It is “new”!! Always very interesting the discovery of a unknown Serienschein.

    My friend told me he found it in an old collection filled with notes of Leipzig. He thinks it is a artist design of a Baustein. Why the Baustein was issued he did not known. So, the catalogs of Serienscheine is a note and catalog number richer. (Selling price was E250,–)

    The note is one-sided and made of cardboard

    #38944
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Hallo John and Tony,

    Thanks for your answers. You are right, I think also it is a phone number in the last line. Almost nothing is impossible in “Notgeldworld”, so it could be a kind of “I owe you”. But my guts says a kind of a business card or just a adress stamp on a note (but what is a Notgeld note of Tiefurt doing on a desk in Stollberg?).

    #38937
    notgeldman
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    I agree – Its does look like some sort of business address stamp the owner (or an employee) marked the note with. But I don’t know why, unless he was trying to advertise himself?? Surely it wasn’t redeemed as a payment? It would be the first one I was aware of……….but that wouldn’t be a reason in itself……. :wacko:

    #38934
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Hi Marcel,  I think you’re right about this being used as a business card.  There are other examples of such.  If that is the case, I wonder whether the last, partially visible word at the bottom might be “Fernsprecher” i.e. Telephone (number)?

    #38932
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Thanks Tony and Nathaniel for the nice words.

    Just arrived by post: Tiefurt with a stamp. I can not find anything about the stamp. The seller wrote:  Ernst Kö……, Malermeister  . I think that that the place name is Stollberg (double L) and the last line is I think the street name.  My suggestion: it is alternative business card (?)

    Someone a thought?

     

    #38902
    notgeldman
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    These ‘different’ pieces are wonderful for all GNCC members to see – some of the notes won’t have been seen by a lot of collectors for sure. I would suggest that the Neukirch pieces with serial number only went up to 550 possibly?? (I just found one with a serial of 520). The Dermbach notes are great interesting pieces too. There are so many things to look out for with the notgeld serials. A collector will never get bored. Please keep posting any ‘anomalies’ you find, so we can all enjoy!! :good: :yahoo: I was never able to collect the numbered Neukirch piece………

    #38758
    Nathaniel Butler
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    Wow, that is very cool and interesting—thank you so much for sharing this information, Marcel!

    #38725
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Hallo Nathaniel,

    Nice catch! And the serial number is curious. I have one too in my collection. I think it is an “accounting” correction. The serial numbers are printed at the end. When there is a mistake you had to throw away the whole run or the misprinted notes. If it is “normal”, I do not think so.

    Dermbach 1 Mark with correction. See also the initials!!!

    #38722
    Nathaniel Butler
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    And lastly these two peculiar notes. They were sold together in a lot as ‘serial number errors’, which is evident as the note on the left having a zero drawn over the first “1” digit, and the right hand note having its serial number upside down. What is also interesting is that if the note on the left was truly meant to be “40617” instead of “41617”, then that would make the two of these notes sequential errors!

    Was it common practice to “correct” a serial number error by hand like this? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a handwritten correction on a serial number before, but I also haven’t been collecting as long as some of you. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

    #38721
    Nathaniel Butler
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    The scarce variety of the 3 Mk Neukirch note with serial number.

    #38720
    Nathaniel Butler
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    Recently picked up some scarcer interesting notes.

    These were sold together as a lot. All 4 being the scarce “Pfennige” variety. Also a slight trimming error on the bottom left note, resulting in the printing firm showing on both the top and bottom of the note.

    #38644
    notgeldman
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    I’ve just published the ‘cycling’ article – thanks to all those who assisted with scans, info and translations. If you find others not mentioned, please let me know as usual.

    I have also just created a quick extra article for some nice looking Inflationary notes from Duisburg – please have a look – all on the homepage / under the yellow menu tabs. :bye:

    #38564
    notgeldman
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    Thanks John!

    I had the note on the list already, along with another different person on the reverse. A great looking ‘cycling’ banknote – the extra info will be copied into the article so it isn’t lost – super duper as always!! :good:

    #38532
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Siegmar reverse

    #38531
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Siegmar obverse

    #38530
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Hi Tony, there’s only one other cycling note I can think of offhand.

    It’s the 1 Million Mark note of 24th August 1923, issued by the Elitewerke Ltd., a German car manufacturer based in Brand-Erbisdorf from 1913 – 1929, but more specifically by the  part of the company known as the Diamantenwerke in Siegmar. Elite merged with Diamant, a bicycle manufacturer, in 1920.

    On the obverse, the note shows in silhouette three cyclists on racing bikes with drop handlebars moving down a country lane.

    On the reverse, the note shows in photographic clarity a head shot of one Richard Huschke, “the most successful Diamant rider”.  Huschke (born 6th August 1893 in Berlin, died 11th January 1980 in Calw, or Stuttgart) was a professional racer who rode with the Continental team in the 1912, 1913 and 1914 seasons, and for the Diamant team in 1927.    His career spanned 1911-1929 and from 1913 to 1928 he competed, often repeatedly, in the following major races : Berlin – Cottbus – Berlin; Zurich Championship; Germany Tour; Giro della Provincia di Milano; Il Lombardia; the Berlin Tour; and the Cologne Tour.  Known as “King Richard”, he was – together with his brother Adolf  – one of the most successful German cyclists.  He was German champion in 1922 and 1925.

    #38522
    notgeldman
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    At the beginning of March, I intend to publish a small article on notgeld that have a bike or bicycle on them. As a keen cyclist myself, I noticed one on a piece I was scanning, so the idea occurred. Please send me any place names you are aware of (with scans please) and if I haven’t got them in my list already, I will of course include them. The ‘common’ ones are the 2 Bielefeld 50m coloured silk pieces so I don’t need those – thanks in advance. :mail:

    #38485
    notgeldman
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    The inflation 1923 / specific towns / ‘Ravensburg’ post has just been updated with some more colourful scans – please take a look from the homepage menu.

    #38406
    notgeldman
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    Thanks Marcel for sending those scans direct.

     

    All – I have just created a ‘non-German’ banknote category in the shop as I have a few banknote pieces/sets to sell off. Please take a look………..

     

    https://notgeld.com/product-category/non-german-banknotes/      :good:

    #38356
    notgeldman
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    Hi Marcel!

    Pls would you send me a scan (direct) and I will add it to the ‘hockersteuerscheine’ article. I have seen the note before but it had a horrible torn corner. This one looks great! :good:

    #38310
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    NACHTSTEUER, also known under the name Hockersteuer (see the article by Tony and John).

    A very nice note I have found on the internet is of the city Warnemunde. The artist of this note is Egon Tschirch. He is one of the five artists who designed the Reutergeld.

    #38309
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Hoi John,

    Thanks for your explanation. My first thoughts where also runes, but I recognised a few symbols that made me doubting. I have a book of symbols, but where?

    A very good idea is to ask for help he Rüstringer Heimatbund. They still excist. They solved for me a part of a riddle: the artist’s initials are on the note “FzK”, but I could not find anything on the internet. On there site I found his full name: Fritz zu Klampen. After this discovery the internet was still almost blank (there was in Norderham an exhibition with his painting(s)). May be they have an article about him.

    In general it is hard to find information about the artists on Notgeld. Many notes are not signed or has initals, but you can not find the full name. But there work is spread all over the world.

     

    #38308
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Hi Marcel,

    the signs around the seal do seem runic on a first glance, so I began to scratch my head and consider which runic alphabet they might belong to.  But then I began to see that they are all depicted on shields, and include recognisable pictograms which are often seen on coats-of-arms – a lion rampant, a wheel, crossed rakes, a pair of scissors, a Wolfsangel, a sickle, a pentagram, a clover leaf, a lion rampant on the top half of an armorial shield party per fess

    Some of the signs are reminiscent of masons’ / stonecarvers’ marks carved into stones in churches and cathedrals.

    What we might have here then is a collection of the coats-of-arms / emblems of the Rüstringer Land, the old Frisian Gau or county around the town of Rüstringen between the Weser and the Maade. Some of the Gau, for example the district of Aldensum, was lost to the sea during various medieval storm surges.

    Those depicting working men’s tools are often the symbols of guilds or trades – scissors commonly used by either cutlers’ guilds or sometimes by clothmakers.  I’ve seen the sickle used in the coats of arms of small wine-growing villages in the south of Germany, but in Frisia it would more likely be the emblem of an agrarian association, as would the mowing rakes.

    The pentagram emblem is popularly associated today with magic and the occult, but in the Middle Ages was symbolic of the 5 wounds of Christ (it can even be seen in church window lattices e.g. in Amiens).  If this is the case, it would be the symbol of a local lay brotherhood of some description  (for some reason I recall that the Dutch artist Hieronymus Bosch was in the Illustrious Brotherhood of Our Blessed Lady, and that the rebels of the Prayer Book Rebellion in 1549 fought in Devon under the standard of the Five Wounds of Christ).

    The lion rampant and half-lion might reasonably be identified as emblems of local nobles, but these figure equally in the coats-of-arms of towns and villages (admittedly, those associated with local nobles);  the same applies to the Wolfsangel (wolf-hook or wolf-trap), pretty much unique to German heraldry – it’s included in the arms of the towns of Wolfisheim and Halberstadt, for example.

    It will take a lot of unpicking to find out the origin of each of the over 120 symbols – some of which ar obscured – but I shall write to the Rüstringen Heimatbund e.V. which continues to exist to this day, and ask them if they can be of any assistance.  Watch this space!

    Best wishes and thanks for drawing my attention (and my wallet, as I’ve now been moved to track down and order myself a set!) to these notes :)

     

     

     

     

     

    #38307
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    Rüstringen, Heimatbund

    A question for John Adams: I have in my collection a note of Rüstringen Heimatsbund with runes. You made a translation a few months ago. Are these runes a text or decoration?

     

     

     

     

    #38306
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    The Bismark notes make for a lovely set and an amusing story.  I’ve sent Tony translations of the verses for an article, but here’s a sneak preview interpretation of the goings-on :

    Not all is in fact what seems. The series is based on the legend of a huge louse on a golden chain which was kept in the church tower at Bismark, a creature which was fed on meat and wine.  The notes make it a story about a priestly scam to score free food from the local farmers and has been turned into a bit of social comment on church tithes.

    The facts : there is a ruined church tower in Bismark, and it’s called the “Goldene Laus” (the Golden Louse).  However, it got its name from one of the fading golden words on the tower, the remaining word “Laus” from the original message “Laus Deo” (Latin : “In praise of God”.)  It’s a coincidence that the German word for louse is the same as the Latin word for praise, but this is how legends often begin, with popular and erroneous etymology.

    Look out for Tony’s article for a picture-by-picture, blow-by-blow account of the fictitious but shady affair!

     

    #38276
    notgeldman
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    Ah – yes indeed Nate – thanks. Hopefully John will do the translations and I will see about a specific article for them too. I will add them in, as soon as I recognise the creature?? :wacko:

    Just seen on the front it mentions ‘louse’! :good:

    #38272
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    This set from Bismark has some! 

    #38271
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Article ‘bees, beetles & bugs’ just uploaded – there are sure to be others I have missed so post here or email me direct – thanks :mail:

    #38195
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
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    • ★★★★

    Hi Tony!

    Yes, that’s a good point re: the different date being the reason no other details are given. I think it threw me off since there was no photo so I assumed it would be very similar to the others!

    The back sides of all 5 notes have the same black signature stamp as 481.2a. Another odd thing about them is that the paper used for the orange 25 Pf note is much thicker than the other notes, and the 1 Mk note has a single deckled left edge. Peculiar!

    #38194
    notgeldman
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    Hi Nate!

    Yes – as this is the only set dated ‘1.4.1921 – 1.7.1921’, I guess the catalogue writers didn’t need to state the paper colours?? Are the reverses all blank?

    Where did you mange to get those? Its a great set to have in your collection. At least you can scan them in for your online catalogue now! :good: :yahoo:

     

    #38185
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
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    • ★★★★

    I recently purchased this set from Groß-Eulau. I believe it is L-467d or G/M-481.3. What stood out to me was that there was no mention, in either catalogue, about these notes being printed on color paper. The other “Zum Bergschlössel” notes from Groß-Eulau all seem to be printed on white or yellowish paper. Does anyone know any information about this set? Do each of the denominations in this set always come printed on the same paper color? Is it random? Thank you for any info you might have!

    #38184
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
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    • ★★★★

    #38171
    notgeldman
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    New articles published on some very interesting ‘stool tax’ vouchers and the colourful set of 4 pieces from Annaberg. Strangely dated in February 1923 but with face values of 50 + 100 + 150 + 200 marks!! In 1923, they would have been in millionens and milliarden…….. something to get to the bottom of for someone I hope……. :wacko:

    #38103
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    I have just added a new article ‘Scharley’ found on the homepage or under specific towns of the 1914 category. Please have a read. It has a super bit of information in it, that I was not aware of and had completely misunderstood the situation! :yahoo:

    #38077
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    I have just added a couple more to the entries on the article for ‘reused’ designs – we now have Neuruppin, Randow & Schwabisch-Gmund.

    If you stumble across others, please let me know. :good:

    #38057
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    Anyone particularly interested in it, before I add it to the shop? :whistle:

    #37990
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    Just arrived today is this lovely set of 3 from Saalfeld……. with presentation envelope, I’ve never had before! :good:

    #37865
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    I’ve just reworded my Meissen article(s). I just realised that we have Woodrow Wilson’s 14 point plan referenced on the 50 million mark note, which is printed on hand-made paper. 7 right wing feathers, so 14 wing feathers in total! :yahoo:

    #37820
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Zacary!

    Serial numbers can be very confusing and very time-consuming for notgeld collectors. There 2 basic sorts, depending on the set up or type of numerator the printing firm had or used : where the actual serial number can have a leading zero but also where it doesn’t (eg) ‘012345’ & ‘12345’. In both cases you can be almost certain that the amount of notes issued were at least the highest number you can find. There are always anomalies though, like everything else with notgeld issues. Schalkau springs to mind straight away with its fixed first digit for the different 6 pieces (see ‘Schalkau’ article).

    With the Sonneberg hole-punched cancelled pieces from Marcel, discussed recently, something strange has happened there, as the range of serial numbers which have been cancelled is very small….about 150 notes. The serials then go higher than the 6500 number range but a good way.

    Does that clear up your queries? Variants can then be discussed with asterisk or not, size of font etc etc………so it goes on. I had a headache after I had been through my Noerenberg variant pieces :wacko:

    #37793
    Avatar photoZacary E. Wilson-Fetrow
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Some specific questions about serial numbers on notgeld:

    (1) Do serial numbers usually begin at “00001”? I’ve seen serial numbers that are “54023,” and I was skeptical that 54,023 were issued, and wondered if they might start at like “10000” or another number (US bank notes have 11 numbers, regardless if the first).

    (2) Were serial numbers entirely consecutive, or did they skip? I have seen what I call “groups” of serial numbers for certain notes: one had a bunch in the “03000”s, “06000”s, “20000”s, and “50000”s. This also may answer the previous issue, why some serial numbers go so high.

    (3) Asked another way, if I find a note with “0012813,” can I be confident there were at least 12,813 of the notes printed and mine is the 12,813th?

    #37792
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    More of these types MIGHT appear on eBay in the next months or years?? The hole-punch cancellation has been done on purpose so probably by the brewery or an authority in the area. I can’t explain the tight serial number range though with subsequent pieces being printed and not hole-punched cancelled. Maybe the brewery for some reason, had the last few it had had printed, cancelled……but subsequently took a decision to print more??

    They have been picked up in the past at very low prices, so I wouldn’t spend more than 35 euros (half catalogue price or there about)?? I really want to know why just these few serail numbers were cancelled though.

    A ‘local’ archive or museum might know what happened here and why but I’m not best placed to ask. :unsure:

    #37789
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
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    • ★★★★

    Those cancelled Sonneburg pieces are so cool! I have only one of the regular issues (serial number 474). Now I need to buy one!

    #37766
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Regarding the Sonneberg brewery notes with the hole-punch cancellations – please see my ‘variants’ article under serienscheine/ serienscheine general/variants

    I’m trying to get to the bottom of it all still but the more I look, the stranger the situation becomes. It seems we have a very tight range of about 150 serial numbers this has happened to (6600 – 6750) within a broader range of around 10000 notes issued……. :wacko:

    #37745
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Can everyone check their blue coloured Schalkau pieces for me please and inform me if you have a note that has a serial I am looking for. Thanks in advance.

    Merry Christmas to you all for 2021. :yahoo:

    #37708
    notgeldman
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    Returning back to my article on the set of 6 pieces from Schalkau (serienscheine / specific towns), can anyone supply a scan of the blue coloured note with 5 digits only and below ‘50001’ please? I have seen a note with something like ‘02575’ but don’t have a picture of it. I have scans of pieces with 6 digits already, so I am only after 5 digit below 50001 please……..thanks :good:

    #37707
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Yes, looking closely at the holes, the marks around the edges are all the same, so they were done at the same time (all together). It is strange what turns up as these pieces are ‘unknown’ :bye:

    #37675
    Avatar photoLeng
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    This looks interesting, judging from the location of the hole and the traces around it.. It seems that they are not punched in a single note, but stacked together and then punched again. :unsure:

    #37674
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Marcel! – very strange indeed for this note and something I have never seen before. As you say, neither Lindman or Grab/Mehl mentions this. The markings around the hole-punch ‘cancellation’ look correct for a file punch that other notes have. I will ask and show your scan to other contacts I have and see if I get any responses……

    You have 4 of these pieces? They were probably ‘cancelled’ together, in a pile of notes I am assuming but don’t know why…..yet!! :scratch:

    #37653
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Sonneberg; Brauhaus 50 Pf (1921)

    Recently I bought curious notes on the internet, Sonneberg; Brauhaus 50 Pf. A classic Serienschein. On the front you see a picture in silhouettes of a scene in a pub. The innkeeper taps beer from a barrel, the waitress is serving sausages and under a tree three people are drinking. All under a lantern with a candle. The backsite is a advertisment fort he brewery and illegible initals of the artist.

    But, there is something strange. The note has a hole in the middle of 2 centimeters. I could note found anything in the catalogues about a “Lochung” (“hole-punched cancellation”). The note is only known with and without a serialnumber. The prices are serious: E 75,- or E 100,-.

    The first thought is that the note is a fake and to make money put a (unknown for the collector) hole in it. This is possible, because the original note has no watermark and therefore better to forge. The next question is why do you do this? You have an expensive note and then you make a hole in it: not very valid.

    I think that they were made worthless, because the offer of the Brauhaus  (brewery) was over or they were not sold. This makes more sense, because the notes I bought have consecutive serialnumbers. When I searched the internet I saw only low serialnumbers, so this is it, printed to much and then made worthless. Then my eye caught a note sold in an auction with serialnumber 10178. My note has 6740. Gone was my assumption. (But, when there are more than 10.000 notes, why is the price that high or are there limited serial numbers?)

    So, my latest thought was that someone found them in the archive of the Brauhaus or on the attic of his grandfather and sold them. But it is strange that they are never noticed by the collectors.

    I think my latest assets are no forgeries. And I have ten curious notes in my collection. And I have no “real” Brauhaus notes, with or without serialnumbers (because they are pretty rare).

    See also the article written by Tony about cancellations.

    #37652
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    #37604
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    I’ve received a couple of very positive comments from members about my last few articles – so thanks for those and hopefully a gentle pointer for other members to maybe read and possibly make further suggestions….. :mail:

    #37519
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi all – hope you are well.

    I have just added an article about the different spellings for a certain cancellation. If you want to get involved, please have a read. If the table doesn’t make any sense let me know and I will explain further.  ;Thanks! :good:

    #37432
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    All I can say is……..you can keep the title of  ‘forum guru’!!

    Brilliant analysis as always from you John. I think Leng will be providing us with more info around different notgeld graphics in the future too.  You can never can enough info about these wonderful notgeld graphics.

    :yahoo: :mail: :good:

    #37428
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
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    • ★★★★★★

    The problem with these runes is that they’re not taken from any one of the five historic runic alphabets but seem to be largely based on the 19th-century esoteric system of the Armanen Runes, which give the clearest transliteration (with a little help from the Younger and Elder Futharks).  Reading from bottom left across, then bottom left upwards, then from top left across, then top right down, we have the transliterated text, in modern German spelling :

    “DA KLUEFTEN BALD WIRD DIE /AM LINKEN FUSS / DEN SCHUH KOMMT WIDER DEM WOLFE DIE / KALTEN KIEFERN”. 

    Of course this makes only slightly more sense in modern German than Middle English does to English speakers today, but as far as I can see this would be an attempt to represent in German – for rune-readers at least – lines from Chapter 38 of the Gylfaginning book of the Prose Edda, describing an episode from the Ragnarok narrative, i.e. the battle at the end of the world.

    Leng is absolutely spot on identifying the huge wolf Fenrir, the vast world serpent Joermungandr, and Odin’s sons Vidarr and Thor. The battle between Thor and Joermungandr is on the right of the picture, and that between Vidarr and Fenrir on the left.  According to the Edda, Odin will be swallowed by Fenrir and killed.  Vidarr will then kick the wolf in the lower jaw with his left foot, on which he is wearing a legendary and no doubt magical shoe, and then seize his jaws and break them apart, killing Fenrir.

    Which is why the German runes say (roughly, very roughly) :

    The shoe on the left foot will soon break asunder the cold jaws of the wolf.

    #37422
    notgeldman
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    • ★★★★★★

    Can anyone help please with these rune ‘letters’? It is the reverse side of the 2m ‘Bund der guten’ note, cataloguing under Gr/Mehl-85.1

    GNCC member, Leng, has told me that the pattern on the right is Thor Odinson challenging Jormungand, and on the left is Vidar killing Fenrir

    #37346
    notgeldman
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    #37341
    Avatar photoLeng
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Hi, guys, I think the old man in the corner of 5 PFG and 50 PFG in thale city is Wotan (Odin). You can see that there are hugin & Munin crows in the pattern of 5 PFG, and according to the legend, Odin will wear a wide brimmed hat when traveling. Thale city also has the same design in 2 Taler in 1923, with the word Wotan.

    On the right side of 50 PFG should be the goat “pan” of Thor Responsible for taking care of herdsmen and hunters, farmers and people living in the countryside, combined with rich hunting resources and superior natural environment in Hartz mountain area, and the Notgeld in thale city is generally biased towards Nordic mythology, so I think this is the shepherd God “pan”.
    There is also the image of “Pan” in the lower right corner of 10 PFG, and there is the same design on thale coins.




    #37332
    Avatar photoLeng
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Yes Tony, every study makes me more and more interested in Notgeld. Many stories need to be explored slowly. They are one of the best carriers of history and legend and Culture. :bye:

    #37322
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Please take a look at the recently published latest article ‘Thale’ where the super information was supplied by GNCC member ‘Leng’ from China!

    The article can be found on the right side of the homepage………….

    Leng – nice research and knowledge – many thanks. Yet again, another notgeld graphic and story is ‘deciphered’. :good:

     

    #37304
    notgeldman
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    Very nice Marcel!! :yahoo: :good:

    #37267
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    #37266
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
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    Original Probedruck by Alfred Hanf.

    My latest asset and a mastercatch. I am very proud to have this piece in my collection.

    It is the back side of the note of the place Genthin, serie Ortsbilder 1 Mk in black and white.

    The inside measures are 12,5 x 17 cm and the outsite are 19 x 23 cm. On the front is written in pencil: “Probedruck III” and on the rear also in pencil: “Reg.nr: 51 II a” and signed by the master Alfred Hanf.

    Alfred Hanf is also the artist of Serienscheine for the places Erfurt, Sömmerda, Gebesee and Weissensee.

    Hanf was a graphic artist, painter and book illustrator, who lived his whole life in Erfurt ( 1890 – 1974).

    #37262
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    There are some great new items available in the shop now, so please have a look whilst they remain available. They could be ‘one-off’ chances for you to acquire such pieces? I can lay-away notes from members if that helps – please don’t lose the opportunity…………..

    Anyone had any interesting additions to their collections lately? :mail:

    #37205
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I’ve just had a few more ‘pig’ notgeld pointed out to me, so I have added those to the ‘piggies’ article.

    If anyone spots an article where an update or amendment is required, please let me know. :bye:

    #37170
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    The central design of the banknote’s background design has to be like the note depicted – a shield like emblem with the 3 words

    GIROVERBAND

    SACHSISCHER

    GEMEINDEN

    Thanks….. :good:

    #37094
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hopefully some of you will have seen one of my latest articles on the ‘GSG’ (GIROVERBAND SACHSISCHER GEMEINDEN) giro cheque banknotes. I am now looking for scans of pieces that anyone actually has in their own collections please – not pieces on eBay or other internet sites, but ones that you own yourself only please. (someone is checking through series and numbers and face values etc) If you have a piece that is not from a place on this list, I would be really very interested to see that!

    The banknote should look extremely similar to this example from Erfenschlag:

    • Altenberg
    • Auerbach
    • Baerenstein
    • Boehlitz-Ehrenberg
    • Borna
    • Bretnig
    • Brand-Erbisdorf
    • Burgstädt
    • Copitz)
    • Dresden (Girozentrale)
    • Ebersbach
    • Erfenschlag
    • Elster, Bad
    • Elsterberg
    • Geising
    • Geringswalde
    • Gersdorf
    • Geyer
    • Glashuette
    • Goeppersdorf
    • Grimma
    • Groitzsch
    • Grossenhain
    • Grossroehrsdorf
    • Grossschoenau
    • Hartmannsdorf
    • Hartha
    • Herold
    • Herrnhut
    • Hohenfichte
    • Hormersdorf
    • Jahnsbach
    • Krumhermersdorf
    • Langenau
    • Lausigk, Bad
    • Lengenfeld
    • Leutersdorf
    • Limbach
    • Marienberg
    • Markersdorf
    • Markneukirchen
    • Meissen
    • Mittweida
    • Muehlau
    • Netzschkau
    • Neukirch
    • Neukirchen
    • Niederlungwitz
    • Niederneukirch
    • Niederseiffenbach
    • Oberneukirch
    • Oberstuetzengruen
    • Oberwuerschnitz
    • Oederan
    • Oelsnitz
    • Ostritz
    • Pegau
    • Penig
    • Pockau
    • Radeburg
    • Reichenau
    • Rochlitz
    • Roetha
    • Sebnitz
    • Seifhennersdorf
    • Siegmar
    • Waldkirchen  – (see next)
    • Waldkirchen-Zschopenthal
    • Waltersdorf
    • Wehrsdorf
    • Weinboehla
    • Wiesa
    • Zoeblitz
    • Zschopau
    • Zschopenthal – (see Waldkirchen)
    • Zwenkau
    #37065
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Zacary!

    Hope you are well – nothing springs to mind at the moment………but I might flick through the catalogues……….. :scratch:

    It comes to me – Vohwinkel I think?

    #37013
    Avatar photoZacary E. Wilson-Fetrow
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Hey everyone. I am trying to remember a notgeld I am pretty sure I once saw, but can no longer remember, nor can I find again online.

    I believe the main design on the front was a map, but coming out from the top-right corner across the map was a parade of coins (I thought they were US coins, but I could be forgetting). I remember it was on the rarer side of things, as I know I couldn’t afford it when I saw it.

    Any thoughts?

    #36807
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Marcel!

    Its all interest stuff that makes collecting notgeld such a great hobby. Most of these differences are catalogued as they are known about. At this time (1921) towns issuing serienscheine were only really after jumping on the band wagon, so to speak, to make money from the collectors.

    An article would be interesting for a lot of people I think. I have several of these ‘differences’ already covered so I will see what is what and the best way forward – maybe for now a basic list so we don’t lose the info. Articles like your post info and picture could then be created. These small and sometimes unseen differences by the majority of people, are what made me specialize in serienscheine notgeld issues in the beginning.

    I’ve just re-written a couple of articles : an Austrian piece issued on reused wallpaper and a German note issued on reused card (a milk card).

    What a super hobby we have !! :yahoo: :bye: :good:

    #36782
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

     

    My latest asset: Neuhaus (Westfalen). At first sight a normal note, but when you are looking closer you see two remarkable things.

    1. It is a 2 Mark note, but in letters you see 3 Mark (“Drei”). The printer made a mistake and used the wrong print plate. The fronts of the 1, 2 and Mark notes are the same.

    2. The inscription below the picture says: 1947 – 1802. The normal inscription is 1247 – 1802, but the print plate was wearn down and the “2” became a “9”.

    But all this is curious. Why issue these printing mistakes? You may think that it was overlooked, but when you see the price (E 3,– and the depicted note 30,–), there where lots of them. Had Neuhaus no money to make a new printing plate? An other possibility is that the printing sheets with the mistakes where issued on a later time as a curiosity.

    I do not believe this all. The naughty thought I have is that Neuhaus was not really interested in the notes itself, but they where only in for the money.

    There are more notes with printing errors: Auenbüll (Eiech instead of Eiche (“oak”)), Paulinzella (the expiration date), Atenwerder (corrections in the name of the Druckfirma (printing company), Warin the number B3 on yellow base instead of red for example.

    #Tony: May be a nice article with mistakes on Serienscheine.

    #36678
    notgeldman
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    A collector colleague is after a picture of a German notgeld piece from Gießübel (Thuringia).  This isn’t the Austrian Giesshuebel notes.

    Apparently it sold on eBay but I can’t find it. Does anyone have a picture of the note they can send me please, so I can pass it on? The collector thinks its a  Paycheck or a printed place order on the bank for Thuringia, probably Meiningen branch……. :wacko:

    #36635
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Here are a couple of notgeld that have landed on my desk. Issued in Stollberg, the notes have different signatures.

    #36510
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Can anyone help me please? Does anyone own or know of German notgeld banknotes with a fingerprint signature? (sign of official authority). I now have notes from these different places:

    • Aurich
    • Hasslinghausen
    • Mohrungen
    • Olpe

    but there are probably others??  Thanks in advance :mail:

    #36435
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    I’ll add the pictures to the ‘Willi Lippert’ article if you can send them to me direct please? So they are catalogued now as Baustein but serienscheine too?

    I don’t need them in my new book as that only covered ones ‘known’ by Grabowski. The PUZ is the most up to date catalogue for serienscheine you can get so will hopefully become much more available after the planned update you spoke to me about…..whenever that is planned for.

    Where did you get them from – absolutely fascinating!! :good:

    #36357
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Hallo John,

    Thanks you for your elaborate explanation of the notes (missed the book), the biography of Lippert and the compliment.

    Much is now more clear. I am reading a book about the history of Germany. In this book is a chapter about the preoccupation of the 19th century Germans with the middle ages (and later on the NS period). The so-called “invention of the middle ages” . In the Serienscheine you see a lot of history; the feasts around the founding of cities, the landscape, fairy-tails, woods, citywalls and gates, castles and churches et cetera. I think it is a way to create a common history for all Germany. The land was ages shattered in hunderds of states, all with their own history. Just in 1870-1871 Germany was forced to be one country. The “new” Kaiserreich (second Reich) was seen as a kind of continuation to the Kaisers Otto’s and Frederik’s period (first Reich, 10-12 century).

    Yes, I could either not find anything about a Jugendheim.

    #36356
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
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    Wow Marcel these are truly beautiful notes!

    The artist W.H. Lippert’s biography might be informative about the medieval setting of the pictures.  Willi Otto Lippert (1898-1981) was a local of Rathenow and a keen member of the Wandervogel organisation (1896-1933), which rejected industrialisation and communed with nature by hiking and camping; they were also folksy nationalists and a major feature of their gatherings and hikes was the singing of folk songs.  Karl Fischer, the successor of the movement’s founder Hermann Hoffmann, saw the Wandervögel as latter-day medieval travelling scholars, and indeed under his leadership members were referred to as Scholaren.

    It’s probably no surprise that Willi Lippert had a medieval nickname within the group, Horsa (after the Saxon chieftain who began the post-Roman conquest of Britannia);  he liked the name so much that he changed his name to Willi Horsa Lippert, hence the signature “W.H. Lippert” rather than “W.O. Lippert”.

    With this in mind, we can perhaps read the iconography of the notes as follows :

    2 Mark : two young men, medieval wandering minstrels (one with his hair in a floral wreath familiar in depictions of the Wartburg Minnesänger contest in 1207, the other wearing a band to keep his flowing locks in place), arrive near Rathenow but can find no room at the inn. The face of the man on the right is visibly in shadow and with a downcast expression.

    5 Mark :  A thoughtful young man, resting from lute practice and with a book clutched to his breast, has the idea of building a wayside hostelry for weary travellers, especially travelling scholars and free spirits such as himself.  Perhaps the blueprint of a building, tacked to the wall, has inspired him.

    10 Mark : local artisans build a such a place.

    The series thus incorporates the ideals and the self-image of Lippert’s Wandervogel background, appropriately in raising funds for the building of a youth hostel.

    Lippert had joined the Kaiser’s forces at the age of only 16, volunteered as a radio operator in the new submarines and survived the war to take up again his association with the Wandervogel movement and begin his career as an artist.  He designed NotgeldSerienscheine and inflationary issues – for Rathenow and a number of other issuing towns in the March of Brandenburg, Silesia and Pomerania.  At the beginning of the National Socialist regime, the Wandervogel movement was banned and Lippert was arrested and sent to the Oranienburg concentration camp, where he was apparently required to design their Lagergeld.

    Sadly, it seems that the Youth Hostel in Rathenow was never built, most likely because the rampant inflation reduced the sums collected to meaningless amounts.

     

     

    #36355
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
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    Rathenow, Jugendheim 10 Mark rear wth a unidentified stamp. Not known in Grabowski and Lindman/PUZ.

    The 10 Mark note is also known with three overprints: 25 Mark, 50 Mark and 100 Mark.

    #36354
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Rathenow:  Rathenower Jugendheim   2 Mark, 10 Mark and 5 Mark.  The rear of the notes are empty. (Lindman/PUZ  1068.1     Gr. 1098.1). These three  notes are in my collection. They are “Bausteine” for a  “Jugendheim”: building blocks for a youth home. The pictures are from the artist W. H. Lippert. The 2 Mark note is a romantic picture of a couple (on horseback?) who fell in love with there (new) home. On the 5 Mark note you see a young man sitting in a big chair next to a workbench. On the bench are paperrolls (floorplans?) and on the wall you see a drawing of a floorplan of a house (the Jugendheim?). Between his legs he has a lute. The young man is in deep thoughts (See the decoration on both sides: a growing plant as a metaphor for the building of the new Jugendheim). The 10 Mark shows three men who are actually making a Baustein for the Jugendheim.

    I do not have a picture of the 1 Mark.

    Why are the pictures in a medieval setting? A Jugendheim as a castle, as in “my home is my castle”?

     

    m

    #36326
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Hi chaps!

    I have the sets on eBay covered – thanks.

    Marcel – can you email me pls with your sets’ details…..including serial numbers.

    Originally I thought there might have been 2 different runs, one for the same number sets and another for the consecurive numbered pieces. Thinking more about how this happened leads one to even more questions. My understanding is : the notes were printed and cut up……and then put through the numerators. If there were 6 numerators at this print shop, then all the pile of ‘note1’ could be loaded into the first numerator…….all the pile of ‘note2 could be loaded into the second numerator etc. So the first note out of each of the 6 numerators would be ‘1’………the second note from all the numerators would be numbered ‘2’ and so on………ok -so there we have the same serial numbered sets. To chnage and get consecutive numbered sets, one would have to remove a note from the 2nd pile, 2 notes from the 3rd pile, 3 notes from the 4th pile etc…….removing a total of 15 notes in total. Then one could collect the notes out of the numerators 1 – 6…….2 – 7………3 – 8. But I think they could have just stacked the blank sets into 1 numerator and then started numbering…………1-6…….7-12…….12-18 etc…..

    But I don’t know why anyone would do it. It would be easier to keep all the same serials together and maybe sell those sets with a premium as they all have the same number. maybe a collector would want a consecutive numbered set awell……..so could be a good ploy to sell more pieces overall? :unsure:

    #36300
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Hallo Nate and Tony,

    What a beautiful set is Bückeburg. A very nice buy! And also NOT in the PUZ catalogue. The transformation from black to color is fine. Even the serial number in on the 1,50 Mark is black and on the other two are red. May be they were a gift or example pieces from the printer or the school.

    (And, notes without serial numbers are more “common” than with, because you have to print them in an extra run)

    Schmalkalden, Serie 1 with KN 3 mm: https://www.ebay.de/itm/363479732561?hash=item54a1149151:g:VvkAAOSwZ4Vg–dL       And I have in my collection Serie 3 with KN 4,5 mm.  I have consecutive numbers Serie 1 KN 4,5 mm and Serie 3 KN 3 mm.

    A few years ago I stayed a few days in Schmalkalden. A nice town. I saw the Iwan-pictures (just the replica’s) and the buildings on the Serienscheine. On a wall there were the pictures of the leaders of the Schmalkaldischen Bund. The Serienscheine depicts the history and about after 100 years still the reality.

    #36299
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Tony – Don’t think I have one of the Schmalkalden sets myself, but I did find a set with consecutive serials on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363479734138?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

    #36282
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Nate!

    Looks like they aren’t catalogued – no serial and no stamp. They could be ‘left over’ pieces that were never used/issued that someone found……..but that doesn’t really make any sense with serienscheine does it?? :wacko: The 3 pieces that I had and sold all had serials.

     

    Schmalkalden – I can’t believe that no one has got a set to report in? :whistle:

    The article is under serienscheine/series general/serial numbers……… B-)

     

    #36234
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Also, I don’t believe this particular variant (No stamp + No serial number) is listed in the catalogs? Can anyone help me confirm or help ID? Thank you!

    #36233
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Picked up a new set from Bückeburg recently that I’ve been wanting to find for a long while. Prior to obtaining them, I hadn’t seen any clear images of the 3 notes together, so I didn’t fully realize the design differences and how they progress from black and white to full color as the denominations increase, which I thought was really cool. Here are some scans:

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