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These two notes from Doberan I bought just when I started collecting more then 20 years ago. The seller told me that I have to look carefully to every note and showed me for example these two. But, after all these years I do not know where the two stamps ” B.F. ” stand for.
Has someone an idea?
Hi Gary!
Yes, indeed this is one of the pair of serienscheine notes (25 + 50pf) issued and cataloguing under ‘Bucha’.
There are only a few pieces I think where collectors will always have difficulty like this. The Bad Zwischenahr ‘Ammerland’ note is another that springs to mind.
I am sure there are people on this forum that will be able to identify a place of issue for anyone who is having trouble. I can’t answer your query about how you would work out from the design and wording that the note you show is from Bucha though, unless you are told……..
Hello all, here I am with a puzzle again. Still sorting collections of Notgeld that I purchased and came across the one in the picture. It came with a 50 pf with the identical design.
I finally managed to track down where it’s from, but I’d love to hear from anyone as to how to go about this procedure.
I checked under POSENMILL, under the name of the famous man pictured, but no luck. What else to do? I checked Ebay searching under POSENMILL and found this being sold along with the name BUCHA.
Aside from spending 2 weeks with in-laws that I haven’t seen for 2 years, this is why it takes me so long to sort and put my notgeld into albums.
Almost finished, another week should do it.
Update on the Grossalmerode note – and its companion piece.
I’ve been doing some more digging and it seems that the issuer, the Detaillisten-Vereinigung e.V der Bezirke W.O.C.G., is in fact the Detaillistenvereinigung e.V. der Bezirke W.O.L.G.! The third letter isn’t a C for Cassel but an L for Lichtenau, as in Hessisch Lichtenau, site of one of the landmarks depicted. I’ve been corresponding with some very kind members of the Local History Club (Geschichtsverein) of Grossalmerode about the 25 Pfennig note from the same issuer, and have put together with their help the following interpretation :
On the obverse : Mercury, the god of merchants and trade, recognisable by his winged hat, his winged heels and his winged staff entwined with serpents, the caduceus, holds a manuscript proclamation of the terms of validity and the promise to pay the bearer. A young oak, symbol of a resurgent Germany, grows opposite a stalk of corn growing anew from a broken stalk, both symbolising the rise of a war-torn land.
The reverse shows cherries (for which Witzenhausen is famous), a weaver’s shuttle (for the textile factory Fröhlich & Wolff, from 1907 in Lichtenau), and the ceramic crucibles produced in Grossalmerode and which feature in the town’s coat of arms. The symbols of industry (crossed hammers in front of an iron cogwheel) may relate to the local glassworks and small-scale mining industry.
Note that the L is more obviously an L than a C on the obverse!
Nathaniel, It is a lot of work, but the databases I’ve seen online all seem to have duplicates or errors in them. I have also been subject to having the internet go out when I’m trying to look things up so I decided to not depend on the internet  So this is a stand alone database which will I hope encompass all of the Notgeld catalogs.
As stated the Notgelds are barcoded so that scanning the barcode will take you to the note or allow you to add a note to your collection without much typing. The database is bi-lingual German and English. There are over 31,000 notes in the database and I am in the process of making sure all the information is correct and as I see new ways of breaking data down restructuring the database.
The biggest problem is getting pictures of the notes. I have over 6,000 notes and I’m constantly looking on line for pictures I do not have. I want to have pictures for every note. That is the best way I’ve found to get the correct information about the notes.
Regards
Allan
I think the catalogue referred to for the ‘World Notgeld’Â issues of 1914 – 1947 is by Courtney L. Coffing. I think you can find it pretty cheap on eBay. From my perspective it is fairly basic, as it doesn’t list all the German variants like the ‘proper’ notgeld catalogues for each category do (I’m not just talking about Grabowski/Mehl).
Hallo Zackary,
I do not know which country you prefere, but for the Netherlands I can refer:
1. Patrick Plomp, Catalogus Nederlands papiergeld 1573-2002. This one has a big section of Dutch emergency money WWII (with pictures in color).
2. Patrick Plomp, Catalogue Papermoney of the Netherlands Part 2. Some (oversea) emergency money.
Contact: http://www.PatrickP.nl He is a very nice man, full with information!!  (NB. Both books are a beautiful overview for all the Dutch papermoney)
3. Toele and Jacobs, Het noodgeld van Nederland in de Tweede Wereldoorlog (Leiden, 1996. It is the standerd issue for emergency money WOII in the Netherlands. It is in Dutch, but a very elaborated book! (pictures in black and white)
4. See also the website het geheugen (“the memory” (of the Netherlands)); https://geheugen.delpher.nl/nl/geheugen/pages/collectie/Het+noodgeld+van+de+Tweede+Wereldoorlog
For Germany you have: Grabowski, Das Geld des Terrors, Geld und Geldersatz in deutschen Konzentrationslagern und Gettos 1933 bis 1945. It is in German. Not only the notes are discribed in the book, but it has a historical intro of of those places.
Note: be carefull with bying the German WWII money. There are many forgeries and issues of false places of issue. Is is a bit of a minefield to collect this era. For the Netherlands the prices are (very) high, because the emergency money was mostly never issued and much is destroyed (officially).
For other countries I know there are catalogues, but I do not have them.
There is a book written by ??? (forget his name) of of all the emergency money of the world (ask Tony). It is a older book, but I think which countries issued emergency money it is very helpfull.
I’ve never really been interested in these issues and don’t have any books relating to them. Guys – anyone help Zacary out here?
I would really like to look into the WWII era notgeld. I adore the traditional era, but I do have a closer connection to WWII history. Is there a best source of information on the 40s issues?
Thanks again for the thoughtful response and feedback, Marcel! I agree, it is ALWAYS easier to SEE the variations instead of read their descriptions and try to imagine what it looks like. This is the main thing I want to improve in my catalogue vs. the existing catalogues. I want to have images for every note possible, including the varieties. This will mean a much bigger effort, but I think it will be well worth it.
Good idea on including the Lindman numbers as well. I will figure out a good way to incorporate those numbers on the relevant listings.
I’m not sure I’m familiar with the “PUZ” catalogue you mentioned. Could you provide a link or photo so I can see what this catalogue looks like? Thank you!
Hallo Nathaniel,
Thanks for your nice words. Yes, that is what meant. I had German lessons on school and went reguraly on holiday to Germany, but it is sometimes hard to understand German, especially the specific e.g. technical words or the names for tools, animals, plants or art. Dutch resembles German. My mother spoke whole conversations in only Dutch with German people and they understand it (I hope!!).
A tip: add the Lindmannumber also in your catalogue. I think the best recognition is the picture of the note (front and back). That makes the Grabowski catalogue easier to work with than the Lindman. I personally work with the PUZ catalogue (if you are collecting, collect them all!!). The base is Lindman, but is elaborated in the details (e.g signatures (Friedeberg am Queis), dry stamps (Potsdam) and has also an overview of the enveloppes/folders and the overprints and if there are printsheets.
It is a great effort yo make a good catalogue. It is not easy to tell in words what are the specifics ans the differents. After more than 25 years of collecting I am not sure what the catalogue sometimes means with e.g. Altona Landesbürgerrat: Rs black and RS blue. Mostly you see the difference when you have them in your hands and good daylight (!), e.g Aschersleben with the print “SPAR”. When you have a lot on your desk finally you see what the catalogues says. Or paper: white and greywhite. Or Lichtenstein: three catalogues tell a different story.
Overall: with the years you learn more. That is why I love this Forum.
Marcel – perhaps this is what you meant by including the English + German names? (The lefthand page)
Marcel – thank you for all these wonderful suggestions! Some will be much easier to integrate than others, but they are all really great ideas. I definitely want to do zoom-in images of certain details so its easier for the reader to identify specific varieties. Being more descriptive about which side of the note features something like the printer’s name is a great suggestion, and easy to implement. I’ve found that standardizing the scale of the images can be REALLY tricky when fitting everything into a page layout. Maybe if I include millimeter measurements of each note it would help?
Question: When you mention including the German name of each note, what exactly are you referring to? Could you give me an example of an English name vs. German name to help me understand?
For storage of images, yes, cloud storage is definitely the easiest way to do it. Dropbox is a good inexpensive option, and is what I use, but there are many other options to choose from.
Hallo Nathaniel,
What a beautiful catalogue you are creating!! Is is a lifetime achiefment.
I have an electronic catalogue. It is a combination of Lindman and Grabowski. It has 23 (!!) entrances e.g. number Lindman, Grabowski, own number, city, issue point, discription of the note (text or image etc), the value, in possession (0 or 1 or2…), Type I or II, with or without KN or No etc), watermark, artist or designer……………….  But, the catalogue is in Exel and to big for my screen, so you have to scroll left, right. And the other problem is you have to discribe EVERY note. I have till now about more than 32.000 entrances. Not all existing notes, but for the overview it is better so.
Further, I would like a picture of every note (front and reverse). Now I have to look in my albums. The problem is: how do I do it? I have more than 12.000 notes, so I need to scan everyone RS and VS. To intergrate them in the electronic is too heavy (in bites) or do I store them in the cloud?!
So I use my paper catalogue when I have to look up something or when I am on a fair. (and I have on almost every page made notes, because the catalogue is not always clear enough or the note I have is not perfect enough, I underline it or I have a special note in a serie etc.) I use the electronic catalogue as a back-up and for the statistics (value and quantity) or when I am on holiday in Germany to sort out the places in the neighbourhood.
A question for you Nathaniel: How do you registrate the notes you have (I see e.g. Aken 4x 75 Pf; which one you have?). I like the picture of the watermark next to the note. A tip is to say where the printing company is(front or back). For the pictures: try to make a standard size e.g. 50 %. May be it is useful to add the German names of the notes. You can identify them better when you are at a fair (they are not always stored on alphabet). Is it possible to zoom in on the notes for details.
Good luck.
Hi Allan! That sounds like a very cool project! I had started to put an online wiki together just for my own reference (in English) to more easily look up new notgeld notes that I acquired. It’s a ton of work, but it has been very helpful. When might we be able to get access to your database? I’m excited! :D
Another personal project I’ve been working on is the idea of putting together a new notgeld book in English. It would build off the of the Grabowski/Mehl Serienscheine books, but hopefully include a lot more photos and potentially more varieties (from Lindman’s work). Here is a link to a 20 page sample of what I’ve been developing. Any and all feedback from anyone on here would be extremely helpful! What sort of information do you wish you could find more easily in a notgeld book? In what ways do the current catalogues fall short? Thank you!
One thing I did not mention in the previous post is that I have all the notes barcoded to the catalogs so if you wanted to add the note to the collection side if the database all you would have to do is scan the barcode then add the details particular to that note (Kontrollnummer, cost, etc.)
Hi The introduction section seems to have been taken down so I’ll use this one since what I’m doing pertains to this section. My name is Allan Jacobus, been a member for little over 3 years and have a lot to thank Tony For.
I have been working on a project to create a database of the Notgeld catalogs (Serienscheine Bands 1 & 2 and Kleingeldscheine Bands 5 & 6) in both German and English. When I first started I was lost (until I found Tony), information online was confusing. I had found and bought a database that Kyle Mathers had written but sorry Kyle did not work for me (Even though you did do a lot of work to get my banknotes imported to your database). S0 I decided to write my own since most on line databases had some mislabeled notes and even the catalogs had a lot of errors in them. As I said before it is in both German and English and I hope to have (big dream) all the pictures of each banknote. I have both of the Serienscheine books done and 50% of the Kleingeldscheine books done. Work has been slowed down lately due to to some outside problems but I hope to have it done pretty soon.
I will let people know when it is finished.
Now for some fun, if this entry seems to be long, blame it on Tony who suggested I let everybody know what I was working on.
Yes, I think you are right Marcel. I wonder if it had anything to do with the 1947 notgeld issues – possibly a piece they re-used. I have never taken much interest in the later issues but I have seen a couple.
Who can identify the date stamp on the 50 Pf #3 note of Gatersleben? I think the date is: “1947 sep. 3”. I am not sure of the last figure.
Thanks, Nate. I’m in the U.S., but it turns out, I have both those volumes, the later edition. Didn’t think to look for them under Neuhaus. In the later edition, the price was lowered to $3.
The book in the previous photo is from the two-volume Grabowski/Mehl catalogue covering Serienscheine. Not sure where you are located, but they can be difficult to find in the U.S. for a fair price. If you are patient they occasionally become available on abebooks or ebay at a reasonable price.
I obtained the note as part of a collection. Interesting what people throw into the mix. So as I thought, it’s not really notgeld.
Great explanation from our Guru. Nate, what is that interesting book you have? Could I please have the title, etc.?
The “swindle” was perpetrated by the actor and self-proclaimed theatrical director Julius von Bastineller, who also produced other notes in Neuhaus in Westphalia. The contemporary Notgeld enthusiast Gustav Prange wrote about the issue in his Das deutsche Kriegsnotgeld, Eine kulturgeschichtliche Beschreibung, volume 2 (Görlitz 1922) :
“These Avignon notes, by the sale of which there is still plenty to gain finacially from those who cannot get enough of them. … these notes have never been near Avignon, nor has an “interpreter” ever placed his stamp upon them [a detail of the notes is the apparent stamp of a French “interprète”]. The League of Former Prisoners of War has nothing to do with this Notgeld and has publicly warned against it – which has had no effect, as the gentleman with the noble von in his name continues to praise his wares in advertisements.”
The fate of German prisoners of war remaining in French captivity years after the end of the Great War was a real one, brought up repeatedly by members of parliament in the Reichstag from 30th July 1920 – 17th October 1922. There were even demonstrations in a number of German towns.  It was against this backgrounfd that von Bastineller issued his notes, with what seem to be the fake signatures of prisoners, the fake stamp from the camp, and a verse actually quite possibly from the poet Rudolf Herzog, who may have been fooled into offering his poetry for the notes on the understanding that they would benefit those still imprisoned.
Hi guys! This piece of serienscheine notgeld is a ‘swindle’ issue – purporting to be something that it is not. Arnold Keller says about this note the following:
‘I have always felt to be particularly odious the swindle which was based on the name and fate of the Avignon prisoners. Under the pretext of helping these, the last prisoners who were detained until 1922, a 5m note was produced, allegedly issued by them, thus cheating both the prisoners and the collectors, many of whom paid highly for this note, thinking it to be really valuable.’
Here’s another weird one to identify. It appears to be POW money, but the date on it is 1921, 3 years postwar. I can’t find it in the Tieste catalogs, perhaps someone else can. And look at all those signatures on the back.WOW!
It says it’s Notgeld, but is it?
I’m glad that’s over with. Thanks to the major effort put in by Guru John. Didn’t mean to create a problem, thought T-GM would take a glance at it and know immediately what it was.
But in a way, I’m happy that it generated some real thought-provoking detective work.
Anytime you want a plane geometry problem to solve, let me know. I invented one.
Gary, you’ve hit the nail firmly on the head! Found the last piece of the puzzle! There are quite a few Oberrossbachs in Germany, but one quite small one is, as you say just 3 miles down the road from Witzenhausen. Not only that, but it’s only about 5-6 miles east of the Stiftskirche at Kaufungen.
But here’s the clincher. Oberrossbach is the site of an observation tower, built in 1869. It’s called the Bilsteinturm or Bilstein Tower. and a photo of it is a complete match to the picture bottom right (whereas my previous idea, the ruin of Castle Bilstein near Eschwege looks nothing like it).
W.O.C.G. must logically be Witzenhausen-Oberrossbach-Cassel-Grossalmerode; if one takes the location of these towns and villages, and factors in the locations of the four monuments at Witzenhausen, Kaufungen, Hessisch Lichtenau and Oberrossbach, you get a triangle whose points are Cassel, Witzenhausen and Hessisch Lichtenau which covers an area of around 105 square miles, with the greatest distance between any two points being 22-23 miles.
The four places mentioned in the acronym would be the locations of retailers who are members of the association. The area covered by the retailers’ locations (subtracting the nearby site historical significance, Burg Reichenbach) is even smaller if you just look at a triangle from Cassel to Witzenhausen to Grossalmerode, which encloses Oberrossbach : just under 60 square miles.
Thanks so much for all the work that must have led to this stroke of genius – you’re a Notgeld star! Gute Zusammenarbeit, as they say in German : thanks for such a successful collaboration!
How about Oberrossbach? It’s in the Witzenhausen area.
Another thought:Â Perhaps each of the 4 castles/stones is in one of the 4 WOCG places.
Thanks for your kind comments, Gary. I love notes that really make me work for any understanding!
I think I’ve found the castle depicted bottom right (I was up at 5.00 this morning with my head buzzing!). Now that we know the note’s from Grossalmerode and that the local places depicted are definitely Ludwigstein Castle at Witzenhausen, the Stiftskirche at Kaufungen (a stone’s throw from Grossalmerode) and the castle of Reichenbach at nearby Hessisch Lichtenau, I knew that the other castle couldn’t be far away. It’s not the Castle of Bilstein 70 miles away to the west in the Sauerland, but in fact there is an overgrown ruin of another Castle Bilstein just down the River Werra at Eschwege. about 9 miles ESE of Grossalmerode. So the printing wasn’t so unclear after all!
The districts of W.O.C.G. must therefore refer to Witzenhausen, Cassel (now Kassel) and Grossalmerode (not Göttingen). Still looking for the O!
I cannot understand why some towns proudly display the town name on the currency and others hide it or make it difficult to decipher.
John, I think you should have the title WIZARD!
I too looked up the monuments but to no avail. Then, I went over all the W’s, picture by picture until I was seeing double. Again to no avail.
Amazingly great detective job.
Fabulous, John. You’re more than a Guru. Perhaps a Patron Saint? Anyway, I can see you put a lot of effort into this and I thank you wholeheartedly.
Hi, Gary! Found it! Seek and ye shall find! Your note is Grossalmerode (probably Tieste 2500.05.15), There’s another version of it with the name of the issuing town on it.  I couldn’t go to bed without solving that one!
Hi Gary, lots to think about here! It’s issued by a Detaillisten-Vereinigung e.V., which is a registered Retailers’ Association. One identifiable place on the note is the castle of Ludwigstein, top left, which is within the municipality of Witzenhausen in Hessen; the collegiate church top right (Stiftskirche), may well therefore be the one at Kaufungen, about 12 miles WSW of Witzenhausen. There is a castle ruin of Reichenbach (bottom left) about 14 miles SW of Witzenhausen. The printer is located in Allendorf a/W, which must be Allendorf on the Werra (as opposed to Allendorf on the Eder), and Allendorf on the Werra is situated 8 miles or so SE of Witzenhausen, so I think we can triangulate it to this area of Hessen.
The districts (Bezirke) W.O.C.G. could therefore be Witzenhausen, somewhere beginning with O (i’ve searched!), Cassel (which was spelled with a C back then, but is now Kassel) and possibly Göttingen (actually over the border in the then-state of Hannover, but still not as far from Witzenhausen as Cassel (about 20 miles).
I can’t identify the castle or ruin bottom right because part of the name is missing from the printing. There is a Castle Bilstein (a possible reading of the text) but it’s a long way away, about 70 miles in fact, and this doesn’t seem to fit with the rest of the information.
As to the pictures on the reverse – the ship is often a symbol of trade, as are the scales, on account of these being a standard part of a merchant’s equipment. The caduceus, the winged staff entwined by serpents, is an attribute of the god Mercury / Hermes, the patron of merchants. So it seems the whole reverse of the note is given over to symbols of trade, which is what the Retailers’ Association does.
As to where it catalogues, I would imagine it’s catalogued by Tieste somewhere, possibly as a private issue? I shall keep looking!
Hope this helps!
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