general notgeld chit-chat

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  • #50392
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi David!

    I have now got hold of a copy and am about half way through it. Yes, quite hard going in places but very good ofr understanding of the time and situation and the causes of all the monetary problems, including of course the hyper-inflation. :good:

    #50090
    Avatar photoDavid Lok
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Hello –

    I thought that I would recommend a book I just read called When Money Dies by Adam Fergusson. This book deals with the 1919-1924 German Post WWI Hyperinflation and touches on Austria and Hungary as well.

    While it talks about notgeld, this book is NOT a notgeld book. Rather, it is an inciteful work that talks about some of the harsh realities of the era and a lot of the reasons for it. I’ll admit, some of it is dry, especially when dealing with the pure financial aspects of governmental administrative actions, but overall I found it to be quite interesting and a worthwhile read, giving a small glimpse into the era and its impact that notgeld was a necessary part of.

    #49874
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Thanks John – the piece has been posted to you. :good:

    #49762
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Tony, what a lovely note.  It would probably be classed as a Spendenschein as it give thanks for the Spende (donation) of 5 Kronen to assist the work of Perchtoldsdorf’s Healthcare at Home organisation (Hauskrankenpflege).

    It seems to show Christ at the healing / restoring to life of Jairus’ daughter, and the verse is entirely Christian in tone and content.

    I’ve translated it as accurately as possible while retaining the sense of verse :

    A star has arisen
    In a blue-tinged night
    It has brought wholeness
    To all those who live in fear
    Caused by suffering.

    Its eye blinks sweetly
    At the sick and the weary
    And gives peace and consolation :
    O Lord, you are love indeed.

    And if from out of this heart
    A sun ray lights up yours,
    Then you will feel another’s pain
    And weep with them who weep.
    Then light shall fall upon you,
    To see, in pain’s dark night,
    The star under which we live :
    God. – Charity.- The pow’r of love.

     

     

     

    #49718
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I just received this Austrian notgeld for 5 Kronen, issued in Perchtoldsdorf. It is described as a ‘Schatzschein’ (Treasury note). You don’t see it that often so I thought I should post it here. if the verse on the top of the obverse is interesting, can someone translate it please? – No rush!!…..

    #49630
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to everyone for 2024

    #49598
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all !!!!!

     

    #49531
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    ‘Kriegsgeld’ – war money – so it would cover or be a description used on some pieces that should all date between 1914 – 1918……….BUT they don’t!!

    For me, I think it was a term mainly used on verkehrsausgaben issues dating from 1917-1920…….??

    #49529
    Avatar photoJack Sutton
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    addendum to last.  I did try a brief search of Tony’s site here, but if a description rather than examples for sale is present, I missed it….

    #49526
    Avatar photoJack Sutton
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Kreigsgeld:

     

    Is there much of a description I can work with beyond ‘Emergency War Money’?

     

    Jack

    #49261
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hope everyone is fine and OK.

    Can anyone supply me with coloured pictures of the following serienscheine revalued (OVP) pieces please?? :

    Elberfeld, Lauterberg (Bad), Lingen, Marienburg, Meppen, Neidenberg, Rees, Triebes & Winterberg     –     Thanks in advance!! :good:

    When I have pictures, I will be able to complete the related article. B-)

     

    #49193
    notgeldman
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    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    When you are checking through your duplicates, make sure you check carefully for the slight differences that might not be easily spotted.

    Here are 2 variant pieces from Oberndorf. The top (darker) piece is from the original print run of 20000, so the serial number is below ‘20000’. The lighter variant is from a subsequent run or new run (‘Nachdrucke’) so its serial number is greater than 20000:

    #48796
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Jack! Yes, John is well but extremely busy. You just have to be very patient with your requests. If anyone posts here and doesn’t receive a reply within 2 weeks, please just email me. :good:

    There are a lot of ‘silent’ members here who prefer just to watch and read – every collector is different and lifestyles will be different too. Some of our members are retired but some not so lucky!…….yet!!

    #48731
    Avatar photoJack Sutton
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Has anybody ‘heard’ from John in the last few months.  According to his profile, he has not been on for a while.

    #48692
    Avatar photoJack Sutton
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Put another note

    Ello all,

     

    I put another note up on the identification thread.  Take a look and see if you can help me with a couple of the words in the translation.

    thanks,

    Jack

    #48686
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi everyone! – hope the collecting is going well – I have just published my latest notgeld article on the rare 3m ‘No-Bi-Ba-Bu’ piece from Detmold. The information was supplied to me by GNCC member, John. It is a very interesting and appealing note. Anyone interested in purchasing this note, please email me.

    #48413
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    When you are looking through your notgeld, please do check the topic articles as I am still looking for any pieces not mentioned already that have graphics with ‘Saints’, ‘Maps’, ‘Iron Cross’, Pigs’ etc. etc. :good:

    #48338
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Does anyone know of any other German serienscheine that have been stamped ‘eingeloest’ please? (redeemed). It doesn’t really make much sense in terms of serienscheine in my mind?? :wacko:

    #47429
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    There are sets of serienscheine pieces that have been issued in different sizes……..Hasloh & Kurzenmoor, for example but I think it is unusual for the 2 verkehrsausgaben you mention. There is always something a bit ‘unusual’!! :good:

    I have been adding artist names to the article and just found the signature & inter-twinned initials ‘GS’ for Georg Schleinitz, on serienscheine from Herne :yahoo:

    #47319
    Avatar photoDavid Lok
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Thanks for the reply, Marcel!  I did notice the lo ger serial number, but I was surprised to find it so much smaller. I appreciate you looking in your catalog to confirm it as a variety.  More for us to collect! :good:

    #47296
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Hi David,

    You surprised me too! It looks like a Serienschein, but nothing in my collection. I have the very nice catalog by Tieste; “”Katalog Kleingeldersatz aus Papier “Verkehrsausgaben”, 1915 – 1922″” (two volumes). There it was: Sonneberg (#6985  .15 and .20). The two notes have the same date, but Tieste says: the smaller note has a “format change”. The smaller note is the second issuance. You can see that the serial number are 6 digits (the larger note 5 digits)  and the value in the catalog is: Euro 6 for the larger note and Euro 3 for the smaller. This points out that the smaller note has a larger printrun. And I think the small note reduced the costs (less paper, less ink …..)

    Every note has his own story!

    #47293
    Avatar photoDavid Lok
    Participant
    • Forum Lieutenant

    Hallo!

    I like to collect different themes of notgeld, and a favorite is Christmas themed Seriencheine. Two of the notes I have is from Sonneberg and depict a nice nutcracker. The first not I had was a ‘normal’ sized notgeld, but I just received one that is a much smaller size, as you can see in the attached photo. The size is not too odd as this series has some that are about the same size, but of different designs.

    As I have only these two notes, I was wondering if anyone knew if one of these is a variant or was there a printing error? I have not seen such a case of a size difference variant before, but then I am far from any expert in Notgeld – or much else!  As such I do not know much about printing methods, but I would imagine it would be difficult to have reduced the image size in a printing press from the 1920’s, would it not?

    Anyone know more? Does anyone have this note, and if so, is yours a ‘normal’ size (86mm x 57mm) or smaller (57mm x 37mm)?

    Sonneberg Notgeld - Nutckracker note

     

    #46961
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Here is something that hopefully, every member can help me with please. I have added more than 100 notgeld artists to that specific article (under serienscheine/people/notgeld artists). Could you all take a look please ……..and for now, send any artist name that isn’t on the list that you can find AT LEAST 2 different sets or pieces of please. Thanks in advance. This will be a long project but some of the initials and unknown names may eventually come to light.

    Please don’t bombard me with lots and lots of names…..there must be at least another hundred out there……..no rush here……1 every now and again is best for me please!! The notgeld issue (series or piece) can just be named with Lindman number or Grabowski number please and I can get back to you if I need a scan. Hope that makes it easy for everyone to get involved here. :bye: :good: :bye: :whistle:

    #46825
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    This overprinted (OVP) note arrived here today. It has one of the best raised stamp marks I have ever seen. The overprints are some of the most interesting types you can collect. Originally issued with a face value of 5 marks, it has been re-valued/overprinted to 10,000,000,000 mark!

    #46510
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Very interesting. The world is an ever changing place. Great to see history depicted on the notgeld and explanations about them. :good:

    #46468
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    LILIENTHAL, 25 Pfennig serie H

    Lilienthal became the centre of astronomy. First observatorium was built in 1785 by Johann(es) Hieronymus Schroeter. His second in 1793 (see the photo below).  Many discoveries were made here.

    See my article below about Borgfelder Landhaus that was demolished . This article as counterweight for the reconstruction of the observatorium.

    For more information see:  https://www.telescopium-lilienthal.de   (use Google translate for the translation).

    #46467
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    LILIENTHAL, 25 Pfennig serie H

    Johann(es) Hieronymus Schroeter, the builder of the telescope and his compagnions Karl Ludwig Harding and Friedrich Wilhelm Bessel.

    #46466
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Lilienthal, reconstruction of the Schroeter 27 Ft telescope observatorium in 2000

    #46465
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    BREMEN, Borgfelder Landhaus

    In april 2023 a landmark is demolished in the Serienscheine landscape. It makes place for a building for refugees. The old Borgfelder Landhaus has a history that goes back to the 17th century as a beer bar. In the 19th century it was a customs office. In the 20th century it was famous as a stage for legendary performances of the Bremen beat music scene. Before the turn of the millennium the Borgfelder Landhaus started a brewery with Borgfelder Ürtrub and Lilienthaler Dunkel.

    The also traditional restaurant lay on the river Wümme on the border of Borgfeld (Bremen) and Lilienthal (Lower Saxony).

    Translation text (in low German) backside: “If the rooster crows in the mist, than the weather changes, or it stays as it is.” and  “Owner Hans Kolloge”

    #46432
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    There are 2 new articles for you to browse (see homepage) – Schoetmar ‘newly discovered’ note and 2 overprinted pieces from Ludwigshafen BASF.

    I have also added another lovely ‘saint’ note to the’saints on notgeld’ specific article. There must be more notgeld with saints on out there, so if you stumble across any not mentioned, please do let me know. :mail:

    #46262
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Thanks Marcel! I’ll add it to the newly published article :yahoo:

    #46199
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Rheinsberg 25 Pfennig with a pyramid:

    #46184
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I just stumbled upon this fairly common piece which has a pyramid on it. Do you know of any others? :mail:

    #46122
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    FYI – I have just published my latest notgeld book, ‘VARIANT GEMS’ on the LuLu (online publisher and printer site) website.  :yahoo: Link can be found from the homepage ‘My Books’ section at the top. Just over 600 pages, it details lots of variants to be a ware of and will hopefully teach a lot of collectors the types of things they need to be looking at and comparing. It was a learning curve for me too – there were several design differences that I was totally unaware of before embarking on this project. The variants are catalogued but some are quite difficult to understand, especially if you don’t speak German. I hope my GNCC collector colleagues find the publication helpful and thought provoking. :good:

    #46095
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I never properly realised what a beautiful piece the 20pf note is from Stuetzerbach, drawn/designed by Max Bechstein. (I’ve been adding a few different artists to the ‘artists’ post, recently, which is why this note is on my mind.) Bechstein was not a professional artist but was the city architect for Ilmenau. :yes:

     

    #45827
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Marcel!  :good:   Hadersdorf – I had the brown 20h and it has just sold. A very unusual paper!!

    I’ll update my Gera article with your assistance please – nice scans!! ;-)

    #45790
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    GERA

    Remark on the identical but different serail numbers: The serie with capital A has two print runs. The first has 4 digits and the second has 5 digits. But, it is remarkable that the two runs with the same serial numbers found each other!!

    #45789
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    GERA  (See also for the article by Tony on the homepage)

    With a stamp on the second serie without serial number and capital A. Please notice the two 75 Pfennig notes who are on the blue 1 Mark and on the red 2 Mark note printed. No inflation at that moment!

    (my own collection)

    #45788
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    GERA (See also for the article by Tony)

    Two wrappings for the two series of Gera. The black printed wrapping for serie one and the blue printing for the second serie (with capital A). On the backsite the explanation of the four notes.

    (my own collection)

    #45787
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Hadersdorf am Kamp (Austria) on special paper

    Three notes from Hadersdorf am Kamp on vertically corrugated cardboard paper, feels like crepe paper. Also horizontally.

    (my own collection)

    #45786
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    HADERSDORF am KAMP (Austria) on special paper

    (my own collection)

    #45769
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Thanks Jack. I see that John has now replied to your post. You have chosen the right topic/area – great. Queries may take a day or 2 to be picked up, worked on and then posted back on the forum.

    I am sure we will all learn something with these translation types of queries. :good: A good area to keep our eyes on………. always nice to learn.

     

    Thanks John :yahoo:

    #45760
    Avatar photoJack Sutton
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Ello all… I have posted my first ID question in the relevant section…

     

    #45725
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    May 2023 News article has just been published – Happy Collecting to everyone. Let us all know of anything ‘special’ you get in or anything you might want to know a little more about please. I am sure someone here will be able to assist you. :good:

    #45648
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    FYI – My aim is to write about Nate’s excellent serienscheine book in the upcoming ‘latest news’ article for May and I will also be pushing any new GNCC member that joins our club, to get a copy from Nate!

    It is an excellent ‘must have’ addition for one’s notgeld library and as John has said, so, so useful for non-speaking German collectors like me! :good: :yahoo: :good:

    #45631
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Nate,  just to let you and all and sundry know that I’ve just received my copy of your book.  I said in my last post that it looks amazing, and now that I’ve got a copy I can truly say that it IS amazing!! The level of illustration and detail is awe-inspiring, the concordance of Lindman and G/M at a glance is super-helpful, the translation of so much down to the names for the watermarks is an added level of interest and essential for non-German speakers who are saved hours of dictionary work.  Thanks too for the kind mention in the acknowledgements :)!  Too kind!  And not to forget : the presentation and quality of the binding and paper and the size and the layout all make this gorgeous publication a very attractive must-have.  Many congratulations on such a fantastic feat!

    #45615
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    There are some very interesting pieces shown here which are thought provoking.

    I guess we need to get similar pieces and compare them. I have an album full of ‘muster’/specimen pieces I have been collecting over the years. If there were ‘unissued’ pieces that were then cancelled, they would look exactly like specimen pieces – no serials and a cancelleation. Hopefully that would have been written about though in the local newspaper and to date, that doesn’t appear to be the case.

    Kai Lindman verified the majority of my pieces through the years as genuine so I’m happy for that. My Wernigerode piece………now I can’t check with him of course! I’m dubious but it was in a group of other ‘normal’ pieces…..

    I hadn’t seen your pieces before but they are sure to be ‘copied’ in the future – too easy to add a punch hole to any ‘common’ notgeld piece. A stamp mark should be a bit easier to check (type and ink etc.?)

    The Neustadt stamp mark looks ‘wonky’ to my eye…..not 100% straight, so it could be a made up stamp?? :unsure:

    #45600
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    It is always a bit “dangerous” to buy notes with a stamp or a perforation. Are they genuine or put someone a stamp on it or made a hole to make them more interesting? Even when they are mentioned in the catalogs.

    Just bought a note from Neustadt/Orla with a stamp “Ungültig !” from a respected dealer. This note is not mentioned in the catalogs. I trust the seller, but who says it is genuine!

    #45599
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Never seen the perforation in the 25 Pf Wernigerode or in the catalogs. (The other notes are in my collection.)

    But see the pictures of Apolda: They are known with one or two perforations and accompanied with or without a stamp “ungültig MUSTER”. I have some in my collection.

    #45588
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    What are your thoughts on this ‘top’ piece please? :wacko:

    #45461
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    This should be the lastest post – just checking.

    There are posts that have been approved and appear below…………… you just have to scroll down a bit to find Nate’s and John’s post (colourful catalogue picture) which were posted on 11th April at 8.08 pm. Hopefully as new posts get added it will sort out OK.

    #45426
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi everyone – there has been a big bug with the forum posts, but I think we have sorted it now. You should all be able to post as usual with no more approvals needed for doing it. We have to accept the software as it is but I think it is OK now.

    There are posts that have been approved and appear below…………… you just have to scroll down a bit to find Nate’s and John’s post (colourful catalogue picture) which were posted on 11th April at 8.08 pm. Hopefully as new posts get added it will sort out OK.

    Nate – your new serienscheine book looks fantastic!! :good: :yahoo:

    #36231
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Picked up a new set from Bueckeburg recently that I’ve been wanting to find for a long while. Prior to obtaining them, I hadn’t seen any clear images of the 3 notes together, so I didn’t fully realize the design differences and how they progress from black and white to full color as the denominations increase, which I thought was really cool. Here are some scans:

    #35580
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    I have a recent finding to share, along with a project I’ve been working on.

    The scan shown here is from the May 1995 issue of The Fraktur newsletter. It covers some information about the coal notgeld pieces, as well as information about a lead pattern I was previously unaware of. As some of you are probably aware, The Fraktur was a monthly English language newsletter that ran from 1988 – 2000. I recently had the privilege of digitizing the entire run 12.5 year run of The Fraktur, and I’ve uploaded it to a new site I’ve been working on to host interesting documents and information about Notgeld — notgeld.wiki

    Also on the site is a great archive of another English language Notgeld publication called Notgeld Newsletter. This publication started in the early 1970’s and only has 16 issues, but also features many really great supplemental materials covering a wide range of topics like astronomy on notgeld, scatological notgeld, medical themed notgeld, and more!

    #35132
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Randolph, and welcome to you!  I myself actually started collecting a good number of years ago with notes of the Hyperinflation that would turn up on bric-a-brac stands in Germany, and although my interests have widened considerably since, I still enjoy inflation notes and have about 400 of them from 1922-1923 as a sub-section of the collection.  I usually look for a note with a peculiarity or an interesting story or background.

    Here’s a sample, an unusual 1,000,000 Mark note issued by the Hordeaux-Bergmann Aktien-Ges. für Korbwaren-u. Kinderwagen-Industrie and Hordeaux-Bing G.m.b.H. and printed on paper taken from or intended for a catalogue for basketware, one of their products (see reverse side of note).

    I was a little puzzled that there were signatories for two firms, so I did a bit of research and found out the following nuggets : in 1890 the Frenchman Amédée Hourdeaux turned his firm into the AG für Korbwarenindustrie vormals Amédée Hourdeaux with the assistance of the Bank of Thuringia in Meiningen and some Dresden bankers, the Arnhold Brothers.  In 1908 the company acquired the Kinderwagen- und Holzwarenfabrik GmbH in Wasungen and in 1909 merged with its competitor Bergman & Co. in Hirschaid and Lichtenfels.  The company produced perambulators; dolls’ prams; bassinets; wooden products such as children’s chairs, doll’s sports cars, sledges; basketware; and, woven and upholstered furniture.  They formed a syndicate with the Bing-Werke AG in Nuremberg in 1921, hence the note being signed on behalf of both company and syndicate. Eventually the syndicate merged and the resulting company survived until 1978.

    Happy collecting!  May you always find the pieces you’re looking for and the ones you didn’t know you were looking for!

    https://notgeld.com/wp-content/uploads/hm_bbpui/35132/i74puf341325l1csux5gzeilf2de40dk.PNG

    #34988
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Hello, all! My name is Nate. I’m new to the GNCC and the forum, but I’ve been collecting notgeld for about 10 years now. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the March 2021 Numismatist article about Reutergeld, so I took some screenshots of the article that you can find here: https://imgur.com/a/oDOmMIo

     

    #34849
    Avatar photoGary Rosenthal
    Participant
    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    So, sorting my heaps of notgeld, I come across this set.  Thought I really had it made.  Here is the sales page from Tieste:

    How wonderful, I thought.  Out of curiosity, I wondered what the several-year-old Lindman catalog had it listed for.  Then:  “DOOM”.  Lindman had a small notation that overprinted issues were NOT Serienschiene.  So of course, all of mine had the overprint.  All had the same overprint.  One sample here:

    So disappointed.  But…life goes on.

    Anyway, this made me think:  What exactly defines notes as Serienschiene?  Did the various towns just hand them out or sell tlhem?  And what could you do with them?  Bread costing thousands or millions of Mark, what could you buy for 50 pennies or so?

    #38529
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Tony, there’s only one other cycling note I can think of offhand.

    It’s the 1 Million Mark note of 24th August 1923, issued by the Elitewerke Ltd., a German car manufacturer based in Brand-Erbisdorf from 1913 – 1929, but more specifically by the  part of the company known as the Diamantenwerke in Siegmar. Elite merged with Diamant, a bicycle manufacturer, in 1920.

    On the obverse, the note shows in silhouette three cyclists on racing bikes with drop handlebars moving down a country lane.

    On the reverse, the note shows in photographic clarity a head shot of one Richard Huschke, “the most successful Diamant rider”.  Huschke (born 6th August 1893 in Berlin, died 11th January 1980 in Calw, or Stuttgart) was a professional racer who rode with the Continental team in the 1912, 1913 and 1914 seasons, and for the Diamant team in 1927.    His career spanned 1911-1929 and from 1913 to 1928 he competed, sometimes repeatedly, in the following major races : Berlin – Cottbus – Berlin; Zurich Championship; Germany Tour; Giro della Provincia di Milano; Il Lombardia; the Berlin Tour; and the Cologne Tour.  Known as “King Richard”, he was – together with his brother Adolf  – one of the most successful German cyclists.  He was German champion in 1922 and 1925.

    Siegmar reverseSiegmar obverse

    #38528
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Siegmar 5 Million 23 Aug 1923 rev

     

    Hi Tony, there’s only one other cycling note I can think of offhand.

    It’s the 1 Million Mark note of 24th August 1923, issued by the Elitewerke Ltd., a German car manufacturer based in Brand-Erbisdorf from 1913 – 1929, but more specifically by the  part of the company known as the Diamantenwerke in Siegmar. Elite merged with Diamant, a bicycle manufacturer, in 1920.

    On the obverse, the note shows in silhouette three cyclists on racing bikes with drop handlebars moving down a country lane.

    On the reverse, the note shows in photographic clarity a head shot of one Richard Huschke, “the most successful Diamant rider”.  Huschke (born 6th August 1893 in Berlin, died 11th January 1980 in Stuttgart) was a professional racer who rode with the Continental team in the 1912, 1913 and 1914 seasons, and for the Diamant team in 1927.    His career spanned 1911-1929 and from 1913 to 1928 he competed in the following major races : Berlin – Cottbus – Berlin; Zurich Championship; Germany Tour; Giro della Provincia di Milano; Il Lombardia; the Berlin Tour; and the Cologne Tour.  Known as “King Richard”, he was – together with his brother Adolf  – one of the most successful German cyclists.  He was German champion in 1922 and 1925.  Siegmar 1 Million 23 Aug 1923 obv

    #35224
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Hi Graham, I’ve often maintained that the most useful new coin to introduce would be the 99p coin, which would save all the mountains of pennies I’ve gathered over the years and make for more honest and transparent transactions!  As far as Notgeld goes, a couple of odd values spring to mind.  Firstly the 700 Mark notes from Ujest (today Ujazd in Poland), which were issued to celebrate the town’s 700th anniversary; secondly, the 1,60 Mark note from the Brunswick Motor Traffic Company Ltd. (Kraftverkehrsgesellschaft m. b. H. Braunschweig), catalogued as Lindman 148a and Grabowski / Mehl 156.1.  As the latter was issued by an omnibus company with the otherise normal values of 25 Pf. and 75 Pf. , I wonder whether the 1,60 Mark represents the value of a fare?  The notes are also overprinted as 0,50 Mark (Lindman 148b, G/M 156.4).

    #35060
    Avatar photoJohn Arkenberg
    Participant
    • Forum Captain
    • ★★

    This is pretty funny. I had never heard of this of Bielefeld conspiracy but there is a whole wikipedia article on it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_conspiracy

    The US equivalent is that Wyoming doesn’t exist, but that’s my home state so I’m more suspicious Bielefeld does not exist. ;-)

    #34961
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
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    My latest asset. It is an uncut sheet of 9 notes of the place Bochum. The three notes are a part of a larger serie of 7 notes. It represents coilmining. Bochum is a part of the Ruhr-area, a very large industrial-site of mining and stealmanufactoring. It consist of 3 times the same notes with a value of 75 Pf and twice 1 Mk. The notes are printed with serialnumbers (notice the “random” numbers!). I do not know why the sheet is not cut, may be there is a defect or a flow. I like the serie because it is in black and white (like the black coal and dressed white (!) miners. The only colors are the red of the value and the green of the KN.  I think the artist is F.A. Gimmerthal out of Langendreer (a district of Bochum).

     

    #35581
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
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    Here is an interesting scan from the May 1995 issue of The Fraktur regarding the coal notgeld pieces. I was unaware of these lead patterns previously.

    I’ve recently digitized the entire 12.5 year run of The Fraktur publication, which you can find here: notgeld.wiki

    #35223
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
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    Hi Graham,  I’ve often maintained that the most useful new coin to introduce would be the 99p coin, which would save all the mountains of pennies I’ve gathered over the years, and make for more honest and transparent transactions!  As far as Notgeld goes, a couple of odd values spring to mind.  Firstly the 700 Mark notes from Ujest (today Ujazd in Poland), which were issued to celebrate the town’s 700th anniversary;  secondly, the 1,60 Mark note from the Brunswick Motor Traffic Company Ltd. (Kraftverkehrsgesellschaft m. b. H. Braunschweig), catalogued as Lindman 148a and Grabowski / Mehl 156.1.  As the latter was issued by an omnibus company alongside the otherwise normal values of 25 Pf. and 75 Pf., I wonder whether the 1,60 Mark represents the value of a fare?  The notes are also issued overprinted as 0,50 Mark (Lindman 148b, G/M 156.4).

    #35131
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
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    Hi Randolph,  and a very big welcome to you!  I actually started my collection many years ago with notes from the Hyperinflation that I found on bric-a-brac stands in Germany and since then have moved on to other notes of the period and beyond.  I just had a count-up, and have about 400 inflation notes from 1922-1923 as a part of the overall collection.  I tend to be drawn to the ones where there is some peculiarity or an interesting story or background.

    Here’s a sample, an unusual 1,000,000 Mark note issued by the Hordeaux-Bergmann Aktien-Ges. für Korbwaren-u. Kinderwagen-Industrie, printed on paper taken from or intended for a catalogue for basketware, one of the firm’s products (see reverse).

    I did a little research into the company’s history and came up with the following information : in 1890 the Frenchman Amédée Hourdeaux turned his firm into the AG für Korbwarenindustrie vormals Amédée Hourdeaux with the assistance of the Bank of Thuringia in Meiningen and some Dresden bankers, the Arnhold Brothers.  In 1908 the company acquired the Kinderwagen- und Holzwarenfabrik GmbH in Wasungen and in 1909 merged with its competitor Bergman & Co. in Hirschaid and Lichtenfels.  The company produced perambulators, dolls’ prams and bassinets, wooden products such as children’s chairs, doll’s sports cars, sledges, basketware, woven and upholstered furniture.  They formed a syndicate with the Bing-Werke AG in Nuremberg in 1921, hence the note being signed on behalf of both company and syndicate. Eventually the syndicate merged and the resulting company survived until 1978.

    Happy collecting!  May you always find the ones you’re looking for and the ones you didn’t know you were looking for!

    #35031
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Here’s an interesting Beilefelder Stadtgeld advertisement from my collection

    #34976
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
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    • ★★★★★

    Altrahlstedt are masters in recycling there notes. These three are the third edition with a overprint. One note with 20.000.000 Mk I do not have in my (photo-) collection. The hyper-inflation overprints are on the notes with the first and second overprint.

     

     

     

     

    #34861
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
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    An addition to the latest book by Tony. A very rare serie of the place Röhrigshöfe a. Werra (Gr. 1132 and Li. 1102) with (E175,- a piece) and without (E200,- a piece) serial-numbers. They are comical notes, the order is a bit strange. The 25 Pf serie is numbered: A-B-E-F-G and 75 Pf: C-D-H-I-K.  I think they are in pairs, but I can not see the combination (think A-B, C-D,…….). The artist is G. Hoffmann and designed the other serie of Röhrigshöfe too.  Which Hoffmann is a riddle: Georg (graphic artist)is a candidate, but he was born in 1891 I think he is too young.  The other Georg (maler) was born after 1860 (sic) and died 1936/1937 (sic), but I can not find drawings of him. I think it is a local artist, but what his first name is and his other work? One note of the other serie is used on the cover of a book abut the history of the town.

    A few years ago I was on holiday in this region of Germany. I drove through Röhrigshöfe. I saw a few houses, the river Werra, but the most striking things were enormous mountains of kali (see Google-maps). That was all. So, in the 1920’s it was the same: salt, bridge, mill and pub. I can not find an other issue of this place in all the other Notgeld-catalogs.

    I like the two series. They are with humor and made in a nice loose style. The “unknown” artist is not forgotten, he lives on upon the Serienscheine, seen by all the Notgeld-collectors. And the town (now known as Röhrigshof); worldfamous by this sky-high saltmountains (Monte Kali)!

    5x 25 Pf Roehrigshoefe

    5x 75 Pf Roehrigshoefe

     

    #34632
    Avatar photoCharles Schneider
    Participant
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    I upload this regarding the matter of favourites, but also for the Luther-afficionados

    Work of Alfred Hanf, noted Erfurt-artist from the expressionist movement.  If you want to see more, check Erfurt Luther-series, Genthin, Genthin Bismarck-series, Gebesee, Sömmerda and Weissensee. Complementary info is very welcome of course!

    Tony might add it to the Luther-article

    #34855
    Avatar photoGary Rosenthal
    Participant
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    So, sorting my heaps of notgeld, I come across this set.  Thought I really had it made.  Here is the sales page from Tieste:

     

    How wonderful, I thought.  Out of curiosity, I wondered what the several-year-old Lindman catalog had it listed for.  Then:  “DOOM”.  Lindman had a small notation that overprinted issues were NOT Serienschiene.  So of course, all of mine had the overprint.  All had the same overprint.  One sample here :

     

    So disappointed.  But…life goes on.

    Anyway, this made me think:  What exactly defines notes as Serienschiene?  Did the various towns just hand them out or sell them? …..and what could you do with them?  Bread costing thousands or millions of Mark, what could you buy for 50 pennies or so?

    #34425
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
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    Hi John, my cataloguing system has undergone all kinds of transformations since I first started collecting until it organically reached its current form.  I basically have a chronological run of albums from 1870-1918; then albums for Verkehrsausgaben; then albums for inflationary notes; then Wertbestaendiges Notgeld and post-Inflation Weimar, then 1933-45; then 1945-2002.  Outside of that I have albums for Serienscheine, divided into German states – Prussia is subdivided into its provinces and Thuringia into its original constituent states.  Oh, and the albums of Austrian Notgeld, subdivided into the Austrian states.  I use both Grabowski / Mehl and Lindmann for my Serienscheine and appropriate published catalogues for the others. I also have Ubercatalogues and Untercatalogues showing the whole collection alphabetically, or according to states but with wish lists interspersed, individual album catalogues, a catalogue of all the catalogues (!) and an overview I have laminated on my wall.  I’d say I should get out more but in current lockdown circumstances that isn’t an option.  Happy cataloguing, however you go about it! Attached some examples of the Serienscheine catalogue subdivded by state, with some ideas for database fields i.e. state, town, issuer :

    Oldenburg catalogue exampleSilesia catalogue exampleOldenburg catalogue example

    #34862
    Avatar photoMarcel Molkenboer
    Participant
    • Forum Brigadier
    • ★★★★★

    Altrahlstedt is a vey nice example of recycling his Notgeld. Tony mentioned the two overprints, but there are three! they are reissued in 16-8-1923 as hyper-inflation notes with 100.000 Mark to 20.000.000 Mark. See below two notes:

    #34852
    Avatar photoGary Rosenthal
    Participant
    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    So, sorting my heaps of notgeld, I come across this set.  Thought I really had it made.  Here is the sales page from Tieste:

     

    How wonderful, I thought.  Out of curiosity, I wondered what the several-year-old Lindman catalog had it listed for.  Then:  “DOOM”.  Lindman had a small notation that overprinted issues were NOT Serienschiene.  So of course, all of mine had the overprint.  All had the same overprint.  One sample here :

    So disappointed.  But…life goes on.

    Anyway, this made me think:  What exactly defines notes as Serienschiene?  Did the various towns just hand them out or sell tlhem?  And what could you do with them?  Bread costing thousands or millions of Mark, what could you buy for 50 pennies or so?

    #34635
    Avatar photoCharles Schneider
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    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    #34596
    Avatar photoCharles Schneider
    Participant
    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    This one’s double-sided too!

    #34850
    Avatar photoGary Rosenthal
    Participant
    • Forum Major
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    So, sorting my heaps of notgeld, I come across this set.  Thought I really had it made.  Here is the sales page from Tieste:

    How wonderful, I thought.  Out of curiosity, I wondered what the several-year-old Lindman catalog had it listed for.  Then:  “DOOM”.  Lindman had a small notation that overprinted issues were NOT Serienschiene.  So of course, all of mine had the overprint.  All had the same overprint.  One sample here:

    So disappointed.  But…life goes on.

    Anyway, this made me think:  What exactly defines notes as Serienschiene?  Did the various towns just hand them out or sell tlhem?  And what could you do with them?  Bread costing thousands or millions of Mark, what could you buy for 50 pennies or so?

    #34815
    Avatar photoGary Rosenthal
    Participant
    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    This is meant to be a reply, but I cannot find the post I want to reply to, sorry.  Question was:  Which is your favorite piece.  So far, this Gronau piece is my favorite.  Why?  Because it seems to embody the entire dismal situation that Germany was in at the time.

    Some items related to spinning are shown, but the primary thrust of the piece is the current situation.

    This is not an exact translation, but rather my interpretation:

    The one side says that even though the value of the Mark is disappearing, German inner strength remains.

    The other side shows the underfed Germans looking across the Dutch border at the overfed Dutchman and the bundles of edibles stacked near him.

    The beer has no malt, nothing to spread on the bread.  The number of zeroes in our money gets ever longer, soon we’re done for.

    A truly sad situation that gave rise to the 3rd reich and all the ills that came with it.

    #34631
    Avatar photoCharles Schneider
    Participant
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    I load-up the following series as another favourite, and as a Luther-related item

    It was executed by the noted Erfurt-artist Alred Hanf. More series designed by Hanf are: Genthin, Sömmerda, Luther-series Erfurt, Bismarck-series Genthin, Weissensee in Thüringen and Gebesee.

    Maybe TG-M wd care to edit an article on this good artist?

    #34430
    Avatar photoCharles Schneider
    Participant
    • Forum Major
    • ★★★

    notgeld erfurtAlfred Hanf, artist

    #34264
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    The character on the left is ‘Deutscher Michel’ – the personification of the German People – wearing his usual nightcap. At these times, the German people were struggling with food shortages and an economic collapse. There is an article on the website covering notgeld depicting German Michel.

    https://notgeld.com/gncc-notgeld-articles/deutscher-michael/

    #40808
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
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    • ★★★★★★

    Wow, that is amazing information about the Kaiserhof note!  With the crown and the moustache you really can see Kaiser Wilhelm II through the back – obviously the Hotel / Cafe is doing justice to itse name!

    This made me think about the Stuttgart King’s Own Dragoons Regiment note (G/M 1288.1, Lm. 1257), which I recalled has a similar picture of a chap with the sun at his back, possibly by the same artist?  This one’s carrying a scythe rather than a hammer. So I had a look.  And what a discovery!

    Again, on the reverse we have an empty rondel surmounted by a crown.  And looking through the backlit note we see that the crown fits exactly on the head of the figure.  No moustache, though, and the bearded gentlemen looks different, so it’s not Kaiser Wilhelm II.

    It is however another Wilhelm II, the exiled King of Württemberg, the last of the German ruling princes to abdicate in 1918 (on 30th November).  This makes complete sense as the note is from the King’s Own Regiment of Dragoons (Königsdragoner).

    A note on the crowns : the Kaiserhof piece has not the Hohernzollern crown of Kaiser Wilhelm II in his role as King of Prussia, but the Imperial Crown befitting his role as emperor (Kaiserhof, remember).  And the Stuttgart piece also has the exactly correct crown, the 1806 crown of King Wilhelm II of Württemberg’s ancestor Friedrich I, which I actually saw back in February this year in the Landesmuseum in Stuttgart.  Coincidences abound.

    Koenigsdragoner 1

    Koenigsdragoner 2

    Wilhelm II of Wuerttemberg

     

    #40809
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Wow, that is amazing information about the Kaiserhof note!  With the crown and the moustache you really can see Kaiser Wilhelm II through the back – obviously the Hotel / Cafe is doing justice to itse name!

    This made me think about the Stuttgart King’s Own Dragoons Regiment note (G/M 1288.1, Lm. 1257), which I recalled has a similar picture of a chap with the sun at his back, possibly by the same artist?  This one’s carrying a scythe rather than a hammer. So I had a look.  And what a discovery!

    Again, on the reverse we have an empty rondel surmounted by a crown.  And looking through the backlit note we see that the crown fits exactly on the head of the figure.  No moustache, though, and the bearded gentlemen looks different, so it’s not Kaiser Wilhelm II.

    It is however another Wilhelm II, the exiled King of Württemberg, the last of the German ruling princes to abdicate in 1918 (on 30th November).  This makes complete sense as the note is from the King’s Own Regiment of Dragoons (Königsdragoner).

    A note on the crowns : the Kaiserhof piece has not the Hohernzollern crown of Kaiser Wilhelm II in his role as King of Prussia, but the Imperial Crown befitting his role as emperor (Kaiserhof, remember).  And the Stuttgart piece also has the exactly correct crown, the 1806 crown of King Wilhelm II of Württemberg’s ancestor Friedrich I, which I actually saw back in February this year in the Landesmuseum in Stuttgart.  Coincidences abound.

    Koenigsdragoner 1

    Koenigsdragoner 2

    Wilhelm II of Wuerttemberg

     

    #40810
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Wow, that is amazing information about the Kaiserhof note!  With the crown and the moustache you really can see Kaiser Wilhelm II through the back – obviously the Hotel / Cafe is doing justice to itse name!

    This made me think about the Stuttgart King’s Own Dragoons Regiment note (G/M 1288.1, Lm. 1257), which I recalled has a similar picture of a chap with the sun at his back, possibly by the same artist?  This one’s carrying a scythe rather than a hammer. So I had a look.  And what a discovery!

    Again, on the reverse we have an empty rondel surmounted by a crown.  And looking through the backlit note we see that the crown fits exactly on the head of the figure.  No moustache, though, and the bearded gentlemen looks different, so it’s not Kaiser Wilhelm II.

    It is however another Wilhelm II, the exiled King of Württemberg, the last of the German ruling princes to abdicate in 1918 (on 30th November).  This makes complete sense as the note is from the King’s Own Regiment of Dragoons (Königsdragoner).

    A note on the crowns : the Kaiserhof piece has not the Hohernzollern crown of Kaiser Wilhelm II in his role as King of Prussia, but the Imperial Crown befitting his role as emperor (Kaiserhof, remember).  And the Stuttgart piece also has the exactly correct crown, the 1806 crown of King Wilhelm II of Württemberg’s ancestor Friedrich I, which I actually saw back in February this year in the Landesmuseum in Stuttgart.  Coincidences abound.

    Stuttgart obv

    Stuttgart rev

    King Wilhelm II

     

     

     

    #44303
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Very interesting. I’m aware of another set that seems to have a similar “dot” in the corner on some of the notes. This colorful zoo set from Hamburg. I’ve circled the same area of each note to highlight the difference.

    #45327
    Avatar photoJohn Adams
    Participant
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    Hi Nate, this looks amazing! Just ordered my copy 😀.  Can’t wait!  Best wishes and kindest thanks.

    #45326
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    My new Serienscheine book has officially been released! If you’d like to buy a copy, please visit notgeldbook.com. If you have any questions or encounter any issues on the site, please let me know!

    #45325
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    #45324
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    #45323
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    #45039
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I have noticed and I am slightly struggling with, small errors that were caused when the website crashed a few months ago. Some of you will notice ‘foreign characters’ in amongst my texts….that look Scandinavian or something. (A capital ‘A’ with a tiny circle on top of it for example). Please advise if you stumble across them and let me know which article they are in please – so I can correct them. They are usually where a German letter form has been copied across. (I may need to know the English letters that I can overwrite them with…..eg) ss or ue or where a German character was used etc.

    Thanks in advance. B-)

    #44950
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    I just added a reverse scan to the Schoetmar ‘unknown print error’ article. Does anyone have any more scans they can send so I can include all the ‘error’ pieces we have amongst us please? B-)

    #44750
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
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    All good! Thanks for trying, Tony.

    #44663
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Posting only 1 image per post doesn’t appear to be something we can amend. The forum was added to the site source as a ‘bolt-on’. Looks like we haveto live with the limitations until the software is updated by the provider of that ‘app’. – Sorry guys, but we tried. :wacko:

    #44397
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
    • Forum Guru
    • ★★★★★★

    Hi Nate! – thanks for posting – I will include the piece in thearticle so it doesn’t get forgotten.

    I never realised you can only post 1 image – I will chat with my IT guru who looks after the issues like this, for me……thanks for pointing it out. Watch this space. B-)

    #44306
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    Very cool! I am aware of another set that seems to have a similar “dot” that sometimes appears in the corner of the note. It’s one of the 50 Pf notes in this set from Hamburg. I’ve drawn a red circle around it in each image to highlight the area.

    P.S. -> Tony – would it be possible to update the users settings on the forums to allow us to post more than 1 image per post? Having to post across multiple replies like this can get a bit tedious. Not a big deal, but would make it easier to contribute to the forum. Cheers!

    #44305
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    #44304
    Nathaniel Butler
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    • Forum Colonel
    • ★★★★

    #44278
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    • ★★★★★★

    Following on from Leng’s information about the unknown printing errors in the Bielefeld 25 mark pieces…..I have now published my article for the Schoetmar 3 mark pieces. (Thanks to Marcel for pointing this out to me!!) :yahoo:

    I have found some lovely scans of pieces I have here which show the markings we are discussing……… please have a read. :good:

    #44197
    notgeldman
    Keymaster
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    Here is an uncatalogued variant piece from Guestrow that I just came across. Lindman mentions a couple of colour variants but not fr these 100pf types.

    #43884
    Nathaniel Butler
    Participant
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    • ★★★★

    Nice find! Thank you, Marcel.

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